I added a new drive to replace a smaller drive to my box and now after copying the old active drive to the new active drive both the orginal drive and now the new drive shows that the directory is corupt and unreadable when I try to run System Suite Jet Defrag. Chkntfs shows it is dirty.

The box has 2 drives both partitioned that I can switch between the 2 and boot from either one via a toggle switch on the front panel.
All 4 partitions were FAT32 that I converted to NTFS using the convert utility within 2k.
I used Partition Magic to partition and format the new drive. I used Drive Image to copy the active partition from the larger of the 2 orginal drives that were in the system to the new drive's active partition.
When I finished using DI, the orginal active drive's partition was hidden (no idea why, I didn't choose that option) I unhide it and then had to make it active again.

Both active partitions and the 2nd partition of both drivers are accessible. I'm typing this from the copyied drive right now.

I'm new to NTFS and have no idea what happened and how to fix it. I did run chkdisk twice, but it comes up clean.

"I added a new drive to replace a smaller drive to my box and now after copying the old active drive to the new active drive both the orginal drive and now the new drive shows that the directory is corupt and unreadable when I try to run System Suite Jet Defrag. Chkntfs shows it is dirty."

Ok... you can TRY to 'rig it up' so that chkdsk does not show it flagged up as dirty by going to this area in the registry & changing the entry for BootExecute (this is where autochk works from, that kicks off chkdsk boottime work):

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager

Bear in mind, that this is risky though, messing around with autochk in the BootExecute line value of Session Manager!

Also, you'll need a page URL to guide you in the how & why of autochk's parameters commandline lists... digging one up here ->

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/scriptcenter/dfs/ScrDFS32.asp

That's how to FORCE it to exclude a disk... using vb script /WSH.

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=218461

That's how to use chkntfs to force it to run or NOT to run

"How do I stop chkdsk from checking a particular volume at boot time?

When Windows NT boots, it checks all volumes for the dirty bit. The operating system (OS) sets the dirty bit, which is a bit setting in the partition. If the dirty bit is set, NT runs the chkdsk utility. You might want to exclude drives (e.g., a removable Iomega drive) to stop NT from checking the dirty bit.

To exclude a drive, start regedt32.exe, and go to the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager key. Double-click the BootExecute value in the right-hand pane, and change autocheck autochk * to autocheck autochk /k:drive letter *. For example, to stop the check on drive F, type

autocheck autochk /k:f *

To stop the check on multiple volumes, enter multiple drive names. For example, to stop the check on drives E and G, type

autocheck autochk /k:eg *

If you are using NT 4.0 with Service Pack 2 (SP2) or later, you can use the chkntfs.exe command to exclude drives from the check. Go to the command line and type

chkntfs /x <drive letter>:

To set NT to check all drives again, type

chkntfs /d

You might want to cancel a chkdsk command. Suppose you configured a full chkdsk on a drive for the next reboot, using the command chkdsk drive letter: /f /r. This command finds bad sectors, recovers information from the sectors, and fixes errors on the disk. To cancel the command, go to the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager key, select BootExecute, and change the value from autocheck autochk * /r\DosDevice\drive letter: to autocheck autochk *. "

A quote that shows you entries normal for autochk & forced ones & how to stop it from running via reg hack.

(This alone MAY allow you to run your defragger, because odds are JetDefrag is checking that area & doing a string compare & if it shows the disk in question being flagged by autochk as needing work, it probably will tell you "no dice charlie, I won't risk disk corruption"... In fact, I went thru similar hassles like this myself not TOO long ago, like a week back! It took me forever to set it right again... lots of boottime chkdsk's were needed & me moving the data to a safe disk, reformatting the disk NTFS again to 2048k sectors (on HPT 370 ATA-100 onboard RAID controller firmware, seems to work OK on this with BIG data like films etc. now)).



* Good Luck, hope it works out...

APK

I think you misunderstand..........Chkdisc doesn't show any errors!
I don't want chkdisk to stop running when it has to, it's not running on every reboot/boot anyway.

It's the error from chkntfs and the error within Jet Defrag (Fix It Utilities from vCom formerly Ontrack) that is the problem!

Bottom line something is wrong when chkntfs says the directory is dirty.

I did make a image of the drive also and I tried that route, but the same thing after it was restored!
I ran the drfrag problem on the 2nd partition and it worked fine.

"I think you misunderstand..........Chkdisc doesn't show any errors!
I don't want chkdisk to stop running when it has to, it's not running on every reboot/boot anyway."

Au contrare mon frere... I really DO understand!

My guess is that JetDefrag, like most other defraggers, is doing a check on that area of the registry & if it sees thru strcomp type function calls that autochk * is not that, but set to a SPECIFIC disk, it will leave that disk alone rather than risk MFT$ or FAT corruption as well as file data loss.

(In fact, that'd be one of the 'err traps' I'd do & check for IF I created a defragger... dirty disk check is job #1!)

"It's the error from chkntfs and the error within Jet Defrag (Fix It Utilities from vCom formerly Ontrack) that is the problem!"

Got ya... I've seen chkdsk not find a thing & yet have chkntfs flag disks as dirty... something IS wrong, but it's stymiing chkdsk.

(Not the first time I've seen that... chkdsk, believe it or not, in principle is a pretty SIMPLE program - It opens MFT$ & then checks that database against what is actually mapped on disk from its references, & if what is in MFT$ or FAT does not match disk mapping, then it gets copied byte-wise to a saved data folder & then purged from the MFT$ or FAT DB... filesystems are really flatfile databased in nature as far as I am concerned... the next-gen DB based relational filesystem, WinFS for NT based Os' will change that & it's not exactly original thought: IBM's been doing it for YEARS now in As/400 - OS/400 filesystems that use DB/2 as their engine, MS is just going to copy that idea & use SQL Server or a watered down part of it to run the filesystem, which is good for mirroring data for admins etc.)

"
Bottom line something is wrong when chkntfs says the directory is dirty."

Oh, I agree... but I was giving you a way around that... to "outfox" it, but again, risky as I stated above. I'd almost guarantee that would get you past that though, because that's what JetDefrag is checking... that registry entry for disks flagged out as dirty there.

"I did make a image of the drive also and I tried that route, but the same thing after it was restored!"

That's because you caught it in a byte-wise copy, MFT$ or FAT & all... those drive imaging proggies like GHOST & DriveImage don't "F" around, & do it EXACTLY as it sits.

"I ran the drfrag problem on the 2nd partition and it worked fine."

Good deal...

* Anyhow, above I was just trying to show you a way around it is all so you CAN defrag the flagged disk. BUT, there's risks inherent in potential data loss... up to you whether you wanna chance that or not!



APK

P.S.=> By any chance, is this disk riding on a HighPoint RAID controller first of all, & secondly... does the disk contain large amounts of HUGE files like Divx rips? apk

"Au contrare mon frere"

Boy.........I love it when you talk dirty...........

" if it sees thru strcomp type function calls that autochk * is not that, but set to a SPECIFIC disk, it will leave that disk alone rather than risk MFT$ or FAT corruption as well as file data loss. "

Ok, I'm lost. What is "strcomp" and what does "autochk * is not that, but set to a SPECIFIC disk" mean?

Thats for all the other info, though alot of it is over my head. I don't want to skirt the issue since it is a smoking gun. Is there something I might of done wrong with PM or DI? I did use the default cluster size BTW.
One more deal; I noticed that the cluster size on the 2nd partition (69GB) is 4096k and all the other cluster sizes are 512k on this and the other drive. Is it just that the 69GB partition is larger than that 32GB limit it uses a larger cluster size?

Someone else suggested bad memory in this forum:

http://www.tech-report.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=67618#67618

"

"Ok, I'm lost. What is "strcomp" and what does "autochk * is not that, but set to a SPECIFIC disk" mean?"

StrComp is shorthand (was in a hurry) for string compare... odds are, your defragger is looking at the registry area where BootExecute is & stripping that string apart to see what the parameters are after autochk... if it sees the default of autochk *, it probably says to itself in its code "If autochk * then resume next" but, if it sees autochk with parameters other than that (see the URL references for that above I put up that show you what I mean, when autochk is set as the dirty flag to check a specific disk for corruption), it probably checks to see WHAT disk it is set for boottime chkdsk operation & will NOT work on it to not make the corruption worse.

"Thats for all the other info, though alot of it is over my head."

Done, you've got it as best as it can be explained by me @ least in the last paragraph.

"I don't want to skirt the issue since it is a smoking gun."

I don't blame you, I hate it when my system does not run 110% perfect.

"Is there something I might of done wrong with PM or DI?"

You know, could very well be... they play with alot of things on the disk & its data structures & COULD have hosed something up that signals problems to the system, but chkdsk is not capable of fixing them. Drive Image probably is not the culprit (but you never know), but PM I would suspect more... iirc, it changes sector 0 on the disk & other datastructures the OS uses to address the disk logically & physically.

"I did use the default cluster size BTW."

512byte size, right?

"One more deal; I noticed that the cluster size on the 2nd partition (69GB) is 4096k and all the other cluster sizes are 512k on this and the other drive."

Maybe that's PM or DI @ work, ordinarily, when you format a diskdrive under NT based Os', they will use the default 512 byte size... very efficient against diskspace loss due to 'clusterslack' (& disk compression in NTFS improves that even more Win2k-XP onwards).

"Is it just that the 69GB partition is larger than that 32GB limit it uses a larger cluster size?"

I use 512byte sized ones on a 120gb disk here... my booting disk in fact. Sounds like it might be DI @ work possibly or PM, but I don't know for sure... only way to know is a PAIN IN THE YOU-KNOW-WHAT, & that's to experiment on your end.

Sometimes, that's the ONLY way to find things out, but takes time & work.

"Someone else suggested bad memory in this forum:

" target="_blank">http://www.tech-report.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=67618#67618"

You never know, could be that too... don't you just love it, lol? Part of what makes this stuff SUCH a hassle when it goes bad is that you have such a mix of both software & hardware issues that the permutations become quite large as to what is causing your hassles.

Good luck, personally, I'd reformat after backing it up & see if that happens again by repeating your work... but, hassle in time & work doing it!

APK

To keep things more interesting I wiped the drive using the Maxtor MaxBlast (write zero's to drive) though after 2 hours doing a complete job I canceled it and did a fast job which was done as soon as I clicked start.

Then I just used Drive Image (no PM this time), set the partition size to 8300MB instead of the 5800MB of the image to be restored (don't know if that is a issue itself) and ran it checking bad sectors check and verify contents and all went good.
BTW, the other times no error was reported in eith PM or DI!
I rebooted and ran chkntfs and it showed the active partition as "not dirty"!!
Then I ran Je tDefrag and after 8% it gave the same error at the same spot that the drive's directory was "corupt and unreadable!

I went back to chkntfs and it reported that the drive was "dirty" again!

WTF?

Any idea what is happening? I can only guess it was the conversion process from FAT32 to NTFS. The image I used was after I coneveted to NTFS. I also have a FAT32 image (before I converted) that I haven't tried.

Whew... VB, honestly? You've got me @ this point man, I don't know what to tell you... no joke!

(Hope it all works out OK & you don't lose data... especially personally created work related stuff, everything else is usually replaceable!)

* Good luck man, others may have an answer for you, but I really truly don't @ this point!



APK

Any one else can input something?

I tried it again and the first pass of JetDefrag stops at the same 8% complete as before with the same error.
Chkntfs reports it again as "dirty"
I ran chkdsk and it reported no errors, ran chkntfs and it reported it as "not dirty" again!

I haven't tried Norton's Speed Disk yet which I will to see if it is a bug in SS.

I took the FAT32 image and used that, then coneverted it to NTFS and all seems fine. I guess it was something with the conversion to NTFS DI didn't like.
Now, the MFT Zone is a issue I think, but I guess I will live with that. It seems larger than it should (varies up to 2.5 GB on certain partitions). On various drives it varies alot.