From time to time, a person decides that his operating system is too screwed (constant errors, crashes, slowdowns) and decides that he wants to reinstall it FROM SCRATCH, i.e. make sure that no traces of the system remain.

One simple way to do it would be to format the partition, but what if there are a few gigs of valuable stuff on that partition and no way to move them / back them up (no additional partitions, no recordable media with enough storage capacity)?

If it was something running of FAT32, I'd simply boot into DOS mode with my Win98 boot disk and delete all the system files manually:

C:\WINDOWS or C:\WINNT - GONE!
C:\Program Files - GONE!
C:\*.* - GONE!
C:\Documents and Settings - GONE! (after moving all the vital stuff to another folder)

Simple, no?

But how do I do it when my OS is installed on a NTFS partition with all its file permissions and protections?

Any simple way?

If your data is really that valuable you should find some way to back it up properly. If you want a complete Windows reinstall from scratch then you need to reformat your installation partition to get rid of any left-overs from your old Windows install (bye-bye precious data).

Hard drives are cheap these days, as are CD-RWs and DVD writers are coming down in price. I know forking out for stuff is never a joyful experience but it is better to have your data safe before you start messing around (I'm speaking from many instances of painful experience: plan for the worst).

However, If you are intent on pursuing your current plan then you might find this useful:

http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

BartPe is a customised boot CD which will give you access to any 2000/XP/2003 installation with a GUI, network and full file system support.

Originally posted by Curley_Boy:

"If your data is really that valuable you should find some way to back it up properly. If you want a complete Windows reinstall from scratch then you need to reformat your installation partition to get rid of any left-overs from your old Windows install (bye-bye precious data)."

Where would those left-overs be if not in the directories I mentioned? Why would I need to format?

Originally posted by Curley_Boy:

"However, If you are intent on pursuing your current plan then you might find this useful:

http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

BartPe is a customised boot CD which will give you access to any 2000/XP/2003 installation with a GUI, network and full file system support."

I'll try that, thanks.

You see, the reason I'm investigating this issue, is not just for my own PC. I _do_ have a DVD-Writer. But in the past I've been fixing and reinstalling systems for neighbors many times, and when you're doing it for someone else who doesn't want to lose his data, you can't say: "go and buy a DVD-writer or a hard disk first".

Of course, you can say: "you have no choice but to format", but it's always better if you have a choice.

for future refrence this is what I do and what I recommend.
When installing windows I create a 6 - 10 GB partition that is my C: drive and I install NOTHING but windows there. all My data, games etc I put on other partitions.
that way whenever I re-install windows (which I do at least twice a year)I wipe the C: drive and re-install and that way I still have all my valueble data stored on other partitions.
this is my current partition table

C: drive 6gb (windows only)
D: drive 30gb (games partition)
e: drive 30gb (games partition)
f: drive 30gb (video editing)
g: drive 20gb (application partition)

S

OK, I got it. Winternals NTFSDOS Professional is the key.

Strictly following the post topic itself?

"How to VIOLENTLY delete files from NTFS partitions?"

LOW-LEVEL FORMATTING, surest method I know of for 'total disruption' of disk-content (& then personally? I would sweep the disk repeatedly using a magnet believe it or not).



* Many vendors provide this on diskettes with their drives, zeroing out tools, & some (especially in the 'olden-days' early 90's etc.) put that into their diskcontrollers &/or system BIOS routines. This latter you don't see often anymore though...

APK

P.S.=> However, I do understand that the 'authorities' (the "them/they" you hear about, lol) have tools that can actually read a harddisk via something called "skewing" (iirc) that can return data even if low-level formatting or gov't. std. 0-1-0 3x datawiping methods were employed in an attempt to hide data or destroy it as being used as evidence...

Now, I wrote a tool in my toolset I put out (in "OTHER" section) called "APK Secure File Shredder 8.0++" that I tested against a whole SLEW of data recovery tools in SOFTWARE, & it defeated them (they could not return a file's original content once I ran "APK Secure File Shredder" over a file though)...

However, by using the skew reader hardware methods? Well, this I am not 110% totally sure of, because I don't have that available to use here myself to test with! apk

APK, AFAIK, all the feds, et al actually do is replace the read/write head with a more sensitive/powerful magnet.

Also, check out http://dban.sourceforge.net

Free (as in speech and beer) and good.


From the "News" section on the DBAN page:
March 2004: DBAN appears briefly in the TechTV Screen Savers episode How the Department of Energy Stays Secure. DBAN is part of the National Nuclear Security Administration suite of security tools.

Originally posted by adamvjackson:

"APK, AFAIK, all the feds, et al actually do is replace the read/write head with a more sensitive/powerful magnet."

I got wind of the "skew reads" from discussions we've had here w/ others online over time, afaik/iirc, that is what I was told what is done to the actual platters from the diskdrive in somekind of machinery.

How true that is? I have NO idea, just hearsay! Can I find the thread where we spoke about it?? Heck, I doubt it... but, that is what I recall of it because I found it VERY interesting!

Just as I do what you told me! Live & learn, etc.

Originally posted by adamvjackson:

"Also, check out http://dban.sourceforge.net

Free (as in speech and beer) and good.


From the "News" section on the DBAN page:
March 2004: DBAN appears briefly in the TechTV Screen Savers episode How the Department of Energy Stays Secure. DBAN is part of the National Nuclear Security Administration suite of security tools."

Will do, new & freebie tools? I'll check them out for certain... you never know when they can save your butt! Especially ones that get some decent P.R. from tests...



* Thanks!

APK

P.S.=> I love the name of it, lol, Darik's "Boot & NUKE"... hilarious, the coder has a sense of nerdy humor I say with a title like that! apk

This may sound TOO simple of a solution for some to grasp, but it is what i do when that case comes up.


PULL THE HARD DISK. PUT IT INTO YOUR COMPUTER. AND EITHER...

A. Backup all the data to your own drive somewhere, format the disk, and put the crucial data back.


OR

B. Simply delete all the windows, program files, doc and sets, etc. Make sure view all hidden files is enabled as well as system files viewable.


Something like this takes me a whole 10 minutes and i don't have to deal with DOS commands etc.

"Strictly following the post topic itself?

"How to VIOLENTLY delete files from NTFS partitions?"

LOW-LEVEL FORMATTING, surest method I know of for 'total disruption' of disk-content (& then personally? I would sweep the disk repeatedly using a magnet believe it or not)."

Ah, but in the topic I asked about "deleting files", not "deleting ALL files". Your method will not work if you only want to delete files selectively. A low-level format will erase everything, and the magnet method is one you absolutely don't know what it will do.

"B. Simply delete all the windows, program files, doc and sets, etc. Make sure view all hidden files is enabled as well as system files viewable."

That's my method exactly. Unfortunately, you can't do it from within Windows, because the Windows run-time environment protects these files. So you need to boot into pure DOS and do it from there. But if the partition is NTFS, the standard pure DOS available on Win9x won't recognize it, so you need a tool like the NTFSDOS Professional.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Ah, but in the topic I asked about "deleting files", not "deleting ALL files". Your method will not work if you only want to delete files selectively. A low-level format will erase everything, and the magnet method is one you absolutely don't know what it will do. "

WRONG: You did not read lower into the thread where I posted, where I typed this:

Originally posted by Alec§taar:

"Now, I wrote a tool in my toolset I put out (in "OTHER" section) called "APK Secure File Shredder 8.0++" that I tested against a whole SLEW of data recovery tools in SOFTWARE, & it defeated them (they could not return a file's original content once I ran "APK Secure File Shredder" over a file though)..."

* Look before you leap, & try to correct me my man, I did list a way to burn individual files securely, & with a program I WROTE MYSELF as well!

APK

P.S.=> And, if you read the intial topic as I did? The phrase "how to VIOLENTLY delete files from a partition" is the same as "delete ALL files from a partition" to me @ least because of the use of the word partition (meaning doing a logical disk section entirety)...

Still, I covered what you tried to cut me down for, as well... ONCE MORE, you had best read ALL of what I write in its entirety next time around! apk

Originally posted by Alec§taar:

"WRONG: You did not read lower into the thread where I posted, where I typed this"

I did read it, I just chose to reply to the low-level/magnet part of your post only. I assumed you meant in jokingly, so I joked back.

Originally posted by Alec§taar:

"Look before you leap, & try to correct me my man, I did list a way to burn individual files securely, & with a program I WROTE MYSELF as well!"

Ah, excuse me. Did anyone ask you "how do I delete files so that even the best recovery tools can't resurrect them?" Did you even read the original question? Really, it seemed like all you wanted to do was to brag about the "mega-kewl" program you wrote. Well, let me compliment you on your programming skills, which are without a doubt better than my own, and let me also compliment your ego, which is once again, without a doubt, bigger than my own.

Originally posted by Alec§taar:

"And, if you read the intial topic as I did? The phrase "how to VIOLENTLY delete files from a partition" is the same as "delete ALL files from a partition" to me @ least because of the use of the word partition (meaning doing a logical disk section entirety)..."

.

Oh, I get it. So now you're going to tell me what I meant in my original topic. Now, I suppose you could claim that my choice of title "how to VIOLENTLY delete files from a partition" was misleading (evidently, it confused you), but if you at least bothered to read the original post, not the title, you'd quickly understand what problem I was trying to address, and that talking about magnets and federal data eradication policies is at the very least irrelevant.

Originally posted by Alec§taar:

"Still, I covered what you tried to cut me down for, as well... ONCE MORE, you had best read ALL of what I write in its entirety next time around! apk"

Funny, I should say the same to you, since you clearly didn't bother to read what I wrote in my first post. Or maybe you did read it, but chose to ignore. In which case you shouldn't assume that I didn't read what you wrote just because I didn't reply to it.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"I did read it, I just chose to reply to the low-level/magnet part of your post only. I assumed you meant in jokingly, so I joked back."

Really? Why then, did you write this above (next quote of your words)

Originally posted by dr_st:

""Ah, but in the topic I asked about "deleting files", not "deleting ALL files". Your method will not work if you only want to delete files selectively.""

You stated the topic (from what I can see in that quote from you) was about deleting files individually in that quote from you above, which is VERY unlike how the topic sounded... So, to cover both I provided a method for both (entire partition secure cleaning, as well as individual file secure deletions).

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Ah, excuse me. Did anyone ask you "how do I delete files so that even the best recovery tools can't resurrect them?" Did you even read the original question?"

Sure I did, & replied to how you typed it as "Violently delete files from a partition" reads to me like BLOWING the partition out as securely as possible (low level format to me). Additionally, in your 'attempt to correct me' (which is cool, I have no problem with it if I am wrong though, which I am not) you mentioned destroying files in that quote above!

So, I posted how it can be done via a secure delete tool & yes, one I created that's proven to work, & costs you nothing! Covering BOTH bases! You obviously did not do the reading of my entire post because you plainly stated it was about burning individual files in the quote above as well!

The topic was: How to VIOLENTLY delete files from NTFS partitions? So, about "VIOLENTLY" deleting files from a partition quote in the topic AGAIN, I stated a method for that wholesale!

Later (which I quote your own words mind you in) you stated I did not cover removal of individual files (and the methods my program uses are pretty 'violent', especially concerning the interior data of files)! Again, I covered what you asked about, one way, there are others & other folks here suggested them!

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Really, it seemed like all you wanted to do was to brag about the "mega-kewl" program you wrote."

No, I was offering you a solution to deleting files "VIOLENTLY" as you stated. There's NO getting them back via software after running my program over a file, so it was a fix that works in that case when burning individual files.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Well, let me compliment you on your programming skills, which are without a doubt better than my own,"

I can get the job done, that's all I can say about that! Thanks though...

Originally posted by dr_st:

"and let me also compliment your ego, which is once again, without a doubt, bigger than my own."

LOL! Good one, guilty as charged! What can I say, if you give me compliments like you did above? You're doing the "Wonders for my ego" with those, lol! Again, thanks!

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Now, I suppose you could claim that my choice of title "how to VIOLENTLY delete files from a partition" was misleading (evidently, it confused you"

It did, that's why I initially posted how to blow a partition entirely & as securely as is possible! Later, I covered individual file secure removals too again, just in case you meant that!

Originally posted by dr_st:

"but if you at least bothered to read the original post, not the title, you'd quickly understand what problem I was trying to address, and that talking about magnets and federal data eradication policies is at the very least irrelevant."

I wrote both methods, entire partition OR by individual files. What more could you want? I was unsure of your meaning, so I posted BOTH types of solutions!

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Funny, I should say the same to you, since you clearly didn't bother to read what I wrote in my first post. Or maybe you did read it, but chose to ignore. In which case you shouldn't assume that I didn't read what you wrote just because I didn't reply to it."

I read the whole thing, title included, & posted what I know will work to clean off a disk or partition on disks completely because of the topic & also as how to burn off files completely against recovery (restating it 10th time now).

Topic sounded like the former, & your further writing in this post made it different, so I suggested a program I KNOW works for files deletions & their interior data against resurrection as well... you said I did not cover both methods, & I did!

APK

P.S.=> If this was just a 'being on a different wavelength' on our understandings of each other's words, no biggie, but I did cover both things as I understood them as you can see by reading my post reply to you:

1.) Wholesale due to topic of How to VIOLENTLY delete files from NTFS partitions

&

2.) Individual files deletions securely via "APK Secure File Shredder 8.0++"

I don't think I could have been any more thorough on either account, & offered suggestions for both in case you switched gears, which you did & attempted to say I did not offer solutions for both... & that can be plainly seen that I did & I wondered WHY you would say I did not, when it is easily read that I did offer a way to also individually burn off files securely too, when you said I did not... apk

Originally posted by adamvjackson:

"APK, AFAIK, all the feds, et al actually do is replace the read/write head with a more sensitive/powerful magnet."

One JUST for you there adamvjackson... an example of the hardware AND software used for forensic analysis of various kinds of media (not just HDD's, but also USB drives & CompactFlash cards + more)

http://www.tomshardware.com/business/20040722/forensic_software-04.html



* Caught that on "Tom's Hardware Page" today, & thought you might find it 'interesting' from BOTH hardware & software sides of analysis tools used by the authorities to recover potentially incriminating evidence from storage media on computers!

(Dovetails nicely into our 'sub-discussion' in this thread!)

APK

P.S.=> Two tools I wrote are what I would use against this type of evidence recovery:

"APK Registry Cleaning Engine 2002++ SR-7" - because it wipes out tracks of files from apps in your registry (your registry is your BIGGEST tracking device on your system imo, other than individual log files left behind by apps on disk). I never thought of it as a 'security-tool', but others here when we tested it against other registry cleaners (& where mine beat them in invalid entries found + safety guaranteed), felt it could be harnessed as just such a tool: One that wipes your tracks in the registry as to files you used & with what apps, etc.

&

"APK Secure File Shredder 8.0++" (that I mention above to burn individual files data interior content & has worked against undelete type apps I have tested it against of BOTH filesystem scouring type & also secondary undelete bins like Norton Protected Recycle Bin, ExecSoft Undelete, & SysInternals FunDelete) - 1,0,1 gov't. std. secure file deletion exceeding interior data overwrites 5x + random letter per each filename letter replacement to 'frustrate' NTFS filesystem journalling & recovery features too...

They'd help... but from the looks of this article? LOL, you'd be better off melting the disk in a furnace for smelting steel! Take a read, it's pretty impressive stuff in that article! apk

Good read, thanks Alec.

I subscribe to the SecurityFocus Forensics mailing list, and there's always interesting discussions going on there, as well as legal issues.

Originally posted by adamvjackson:

"Good read, thanks Alec."

Well, you're welcome, I thought it was "good stuff" too that you'd dig reading... surprised me some, assuming it's ALL true & 110% right that is.

(Me? I don't trust anything online, unless I test it myself, & I most CERTAINLY don't take anything as the 'word-of-God' until a reputable someone or myself tests it & if someone else does it? I question their analysis too... Tom's I have grown to trust over time, they do a DECENT test set usually in hardware or software & with MULTIPLE benchmark programs, & not just one... they also tend not to just trust benchmark results, but more realworld feel & performance... just using benchmarks as 'guides' more-or-less I felt but not the 'end-all/be-all' either - I can respect that! A true scientist type does this all the time!)

They will be testing the software used apparently as well in an upcoming article, which I thought was wicked neat... I would like them to test it against my stuff I mention above in fact, just to see how well I wrote it! The tests I did? Not enough... it's good to have others test, which is part of why I use some of you guys here to beat up my apps for me (thanks those of you that do, you do me a GREAT service & all I can do is give you the finished models of my work as repayment & thanks in my readme files &/or Help, About menus in my programs!).

Originally posted by adamvjackson:

"I subscribe to the SecurityFocus Forensics mailing list, and there's always interesting discussions going on there, as well as legal issues."

Sounds almost like a SANS institute type thing, which I have bookmarked... I am just about to check that site out & if it proves cool (and, probably will), I will bookmark it as one of my weekly readers... you can never learn enough in this field!

And, in my opinion? That is the 'end-goal', learn as much as you can & on varied topics... as I feel you're overall better off being a "Man of all Seasons" in this field, rather than a specialist in one area only... alot like how it's wise to diversify in stock market investing for instance!



(E.G.-> One area of your skills is not scoring employ & money for you in this field? Turn to another... you have it if you open yourself to learning alot of areas in this field I think!)

APK

Disregard above, this is the edited one (Opera is even acting funny on 56k while I haul down custom Doom I & II modded maps 4 @ a time off of idgamesarchive.com), so bear with the double-post, thanks!

Down to business:

Originally posted by adamvjackson:

"Good read, thanks Alec."

Well, you're welcome, I thought it was "good stuff" too that you'd dig reading... surprised me some, assuming it's ALL true & 110% right that is.

(Me? I don't trust anything online, unless I test it myself, & I most CERTAINLY don't take anything as the 'word-of-God' until a reputable someone or myself tests it & if someone else does it? I question their analysis too... have to, this is how I was educated by Jesuits professors to do so, has always usually served me well, especially when in doubt!)

Tom's I have grown to trust over time, they do a DECENT test set usually in hardware or software & with MULTIPLE benchmark programs, & not just one (so crucial, because a single benchmark does not tell all, & especially NOT in a multitasking OS, where benchmarks only hit 1 device @ a time & also get interference from the multitasking of the OS itself, not the MOST accurate results occur!)

They also tend not to just trust benchmark results, but more realworld feel & performance... just using benchmarks as 'guides' more-or-less I felt but not the 'end-all/be-all' either - I can respect that! A true scientist type does this all the time! Benchmarks measure what human senses cannot... but the best measure if it is noticeable? Is your OWN feelings if your system is faster or slower after say, a tweaking, provided its not just a diff. of human senses indetectable ns measurements!

They will be testing the software used apparently as well in an upcoming article, which I thought was wicked neat... I would like them to test it against my stuff I mention above in fact, just to see how well I wrote it! The tests I did? Not enough... it's good to have others test, which is part of why I use some of you guys here to beat up my apps for me (thanks those of you that do, you do me a GREAT service & all I can do is give you the finished models of my work as repayment & thanks in my readme files &/or Help, About menus in my programs!).

Originally posted by adamvjackson:

"I subscribe to the SecurityFocus Forensics mailing list, and there's always interesting discussions going on there, as well as legal issues."

Sounds almost like a SANS institute type thing, which I have bookmarked... I am just about to check that site out & if it proves cool (and, probably will), I will bookmark it as one of my weekly readers... you can never learn enough in this field!

And, in my opinion? That is the 'end-goal', learn as much as you can & on varied topics... as I feel you're overall better off being a "Man of all Seasons" in this field, rather than a specialist in one area only... alot like how it's wise to diversify in stock market investing for instance!



(E.G.-> One area of your skills is not scoring employ & money for you in this field? Turn to another... you have it if you open yourself to learning alot of areas in this field I think! Plus, diff. areas tends to build upon one another & at the oddest times, acting as a sum that is greater than the whole of its parts... don't you agree?)

APK

Actually it is similar to SANS, although more categorized. SecurityFocus is the home of BugTraq, which you've no doubt heard of.

I subscribe to the 'digest' mailings, which have several threads in one email for easier reading (and less clutter).

Of course all of the lists can be read online too, here: http://securityfocus.com/archive

Originally posted by adamvjackson:

"Actually it is similar to SANS, although more categorized. SecurityFocus is the home of BugTraq, which you've no doubt heard of."

Sure, it's nearly impossible to NOT have heard of 'bugtraq', & I just looked & it's already IN my bookmarks/favs... but I have not followed it in a LONG time!

(I think I am getting TOO dependent on sites like this one, SlashDot, etc. rather than sites like that one... more stuff, not just security related is why! Still, I should put those on my weekly reader tab & I think I will!)

Originally posted by adamvjackson:

"I subscribe to the 'digest' mailings, which have several threads in one email for easier reading (and less clutter)."

Yea, stuff like that IS useful. I belong to the one MS sends out for notification of their patches etc. & it helps alot. I figure it this way, just like AntiVirus patches - get them while they're HOT OFF THE PRESS, because the way that email & webbrowser features are being exploited? You can miss just one update & POOF: You're setup's toast!

Originally posted by adamvjackson:

"Of course all of the lists can be read online too, here: http://securityfocus.com/archive

"

Wow... lol! You MUST be way way into the security stuff... you a network admin? You've gotta be... & from the appearances of it, one that stays ontop of his game regarding security!

(Good move if the latter is true = = job security due to being responsible!)

APK

P.S.=> For some reason the second URL looks just like the first (same right?) - but opens faster here for me... no biggie, the point is there & I can use the info. that site pushes by ALL means: Thanks!

EDIT PART -> I see the diff. now... sorry for last part of P.S., they are slightly diff.! apk

Originally posted by Alec§taar:

"Wow... lol! You MUST be way way into the security stuff... you a network admin? You've gotta be... & from the appearances of it, one that stays ontop of his game regarding security!"

Yep, I am. Thanks, too, for the nice words. It's really an interesting and fulfilling job for me

Originally posted by adamvjackson:

"Yep, I am. Thanks, too, for the nice words. It's really an interesting and fulfilling job for me "

Thought so! & I hear you about this field in general: Most interesting thing I have been into in this lifetime for me, no joke (Well, as far as career &/or hobby stuff... both combined really!)



* Changed my life for the most part, for what I feel is for the better all-in-all...

(Took my breaks between 1984-1989, took other career, & then back onto school again for 2nd degree & then 1992 onwards it was 'back in the saddle' w/ computer-oriented work & glad things happened the way they did too looking back on it now!)

APK

P.S.=> I don't know how long you've been @ it? BUT, keep @ it, you'll be glad you did I think, because this stuff (from watching just PC-oriented stuff this last decade & interfacing with the midranges & mainframes I started out w/ as an end-user in the 80's) JUST KEEPS GETTING BETTER & MORE FASCINATING each year as we go along... apk

LOL, Alec. Come on, man, you're just blabbing.

If you read and understood my original post (not just topic title - which you seem to be sticking too much to), you'd see that all I wanted was something to let me run DELTREE over a system directory on an NTFS drive, which is something I obviously can't do while Windows is running and something the Windows recovery console doesn't allow me and something I can't do from a FAT32 OS Bootdisk, because it cannot see NTFS partitions.

But even after I found a solution myself and posted here that I found it, you came and started talking about your program. With your experience and understanding of computers, couldn't you see that it was completely irrelevant? Did I, or anyone else in this topic exhibit interest in secure destruction of data, which makes it unrecoverable? And please, don't mention again that this is how you understood the topic title. Titles do not matter, many people just post something like "HELP". It's the contents that matters.

I don't mind that you and Adam had a nice chat in this topic on things that interest you and have no relevance to the topic itself, as I found my solution. But I do mind being treated as stupid and talked to in a condescending manner.

Actually dr_st, I thought when going into this thread it was going to be about permanent deletion of files as well. Then after reading your first sentence of your post I thought that was surely what it was about. But then by the end of your post I really wasn't sure exactly what you wanted. Did you want a way to permanently delete files, or did you want a way to delete just the os files? Now I know it was the latter, but in that case using the word violently and the phrase 'without a trace' was misleading. But let's forget about that. More importantly if you are going to post on a help forum and ask for help, that is what you did, do not attack the people that are trying to help you. Let's say he was trying to promote his program, it was still relevant to your request, thus it was still help, or an attempt at it.

"But I do mind being treated as stupid and talked to in a condescending manner."

It's the internet, relax.

Lastly, Alec, he's not worth your replies.

I've been on this forum for an hour or so and I've already noticed that Alec answers almost everyone's questions. That is why I felt like posting this. dr_st needs to be more grateful imo.

dr_st I am sure you will attack my post, but I'm not going to reply. This is a computer help forum, flaming has no place here. If you got what you needed then stop posting rants.

"Actually dr_st, I thought when going into this thread it was going to be about permanent deletion of files as well. Then after reading your first sentence of your post I thought that was surely what it was about. But then by the end of your post I really wasn't sure exactly what you wanted. Did you want a way to permanently delete files, or did you want a way to delete just the os files? Now I know it was the latter, but in that case using the word violently and the phrase 'without a trace' was misleading. But let's forget about that."

Fine. Let's conclude that I really screwed up there and couldn't formulate my request properly. Happens to the best of us.

"More importantly if you are going to post on a help forum and ask for help, that is what you did, do not attack the people that are trying to help you."

I never attack anyone unless provoked. When someone talks to me like I'm an idiot and says things like Alec said in his post from 2004-07-24 07:22:37, I consider that provoking.

"It's the internet, relax."

I'm pretty relaxed. I can be deeply cynical and vicious when relaxed, just like I can be Mr. Kindness even when nervous.

"dr_st needs to be more grateful imo."

Luckily, your "imo" means nothing on this matter. I'm always grateful when people help. I try to be grateful if a person just tries to help, even if in the end he doesn't. Here I stopped being grateful at the instant I picked up the condescending vibes, because like I said, this is something I don't like.

"dr_st I am sure you will attack my post, but I'm not going to reply."

Right on the money, chief.

Originally posted by n99nyrwg:

"Lastly, Alec, he's not worth your replies."

Oh, it's OK... I tried my best to help him out as I understood his question & felt I did so, answering BOTH ways to obliterate files & folders as securely (violently as he put it) as I know how either enmasse/all-@-once via low-level disk formatting tools, or file-by-file using a tool I wrote that has beaten all undelete tools I threw @ it!

(Everyone's worth a reply, even "stubborn/proud" folks!)

Originally posted by n99nyrwg:

"I've been on this forum for an hour or so and I've already noticed that Alec answers almost everyone's questions. That is why I felt like posting this."

Thanks, I try to help: It's GREAT review for me helping others, especially some of the crazy questions we get here on these forums! Some are REALLY tough, or take 'creative cookery' to solve, but many ARE solveable most times, if not eventually over time!

Originally posted by n99nyrwg:

"dr_st needs to be more grateful imo."

Ah, it's cool... he's just a proud guy that is convinced he's right!

Originally posted by n99nyrwg:

"dr_st I am sure you will attack my post, but I'm not going to reply. This is a computer help forum, flaming has no place here. If you got what you needed then stop posting rants."

LOL! You were right... right as rain!



ANYHOW: "Onwards & Upwards" & all that...

APK