From time to time, a person decides that his operating system is too screwed (constant errors, crashes, slowdowns) and decides that he wants to reinstall it FROM SCRATCH, i.e. make sure that no traces of the system remain.

One simple way to do it would be to format the partition, but what if there are a few gigs of valuable stuff on that partition and no way to move them / back them up (no additional partitions, no recordable media with enough storage capacity)?

If it was something running of FAT32, I'd simply boot into DOS mode with my Win98 boot disk and delete all the system files manually:

C:\WINDOWS or C:\WINNT - GONE!
C:\Program Files - GONE!
C:\*.* - GONE!
C:\Documents and Settings - GONE! (after moving all the vital stuff to another folder)

Simple, no?

But how do I do it when my OS is installed on a NTFS partition with all its file permissions and protections?

Any simple way?

If your data is really that valuable you should find some way to back it up properly. If you want a complete Windows reinstall from scratch then you need to reformat your installation partition to get rid of any left-overs from your old Windows install (bye-bye precious data).

Hard drives are cheap these days, as are CD-RWs and DVD writers are coming down in price. I know forking out for stuff is never a joyful experience but it is better to have your data safe before you start messing around (I'm speaking from many instances of painful experience: plan for the worst).

However, If you are intent on pursuing your current plan then you might find this useful:

http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

BartPe is a customised boot CD which will give you access to any 2000/XP/2003 installation with a GUI, network and full file system support.

Originally posted by Curley_Boy:

"If your data is really that valuable you should find some way to back it up properly. If you want a complete Windows reinstall from scratch then you need to reformat your installation partition to get rid of any left-overs from your old Windows install (bye-bye precious data)."

Where would those left-overs be if not in the directories I mentioned? Why would I need to format?

Originally posted by Curley_Boy:

"However, If you are intent on pursuing your current plan then you might find this useful:

http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

BartPe is a customised boot CD which will give you access to any 2000/XP/2003 installation with a GUI, network and full file system support."

I'll try that, thanks.

You see, the reason I'm investigating this issue, is not just for my own PC. I _do_ have a DVD-Writer. But in the past I've been fixing and reinstalling systems for neighbors many times, and when you're doing it for someone else who doesn't want to lose his data, you can't say: "go and buy a DVD-writer or a hard disk first".

Of course, you can say: "you have no choice but to format", but it's always better if you have a choice.

for future refrence this is what I do and what I recommend.
When installing windows I create a 6 - 10 GB partition that is my C: drive and I install NOTHING but windows there. all My data, games etc I put on other partitions.
that way whenever I re-install windows (which I do at least twice a year)I wipe the C: drive and re-install and that way I still have all my valueble data stored on other partitions.
this is my current partition table

C: drive 6gb (windows only)
D: drive 30gb (games partition)
e: drive 30gb (games partition)
f: drive 30gb (video editing)
g: drive 20gb (application partition)

S

OK, I got it. Winternals NTFSDOS Professional is the key.

APK, AFAIK, all the feds, et al actually do is replace the read/write head with a more sensitive/powerful magnet.

Also, check out http://dban.sourceforge.net

Free (as in speech and beer) and good.


From the "News" section on the DBAN page:
March 2004: DBAN appears briefly in the TechTV Screen Savers episode How the Department of Energy Stays Secure. DBAN is part of the National Nuclear Security Administration suite of security tools.

This may sound TOO simple of a solution for some to grasp, but it is what i do when that case comes up.


PULL THE HARD DISK. PUT IT INTO YOUR COMPUTER. AND EITHER...

A. Backup all the data to your own drive somewhere, format the disk, and put the crucial data back.


OR

B. Simply delete all the windows, program files, doc and sets, etc. Make sure view all hidden files is enabled as well as system files viewable.


Something like this takes me a whole 10 minutes and i don't have to deal with DOS commands etc.

"Strictly following the post topic itself?

"How to VIOLENTLY delete files from NTFS partitions?"

LOW-LEVEL FORMATTING, surest method I know of for 'total disruption' of disk-content (& then personally? I would sweep the disk repeatedly using a magnet believe it or not)."

Ah, but in the topic I asked about "deleting files", not "deleting ALL files". Your method will not work if you only want to delete files selectively. A low-level format will erase everything, and the magnet method is one you absolutely don't know what it will do.

"B. Simply delete all the windows, program files, doc and sets, etc. Make sure view all hidden files is enabled as well as system files viewable."

That's my method exactly. Unfortunately, you can't do it from within Windows, because the Windows run-time environment protects these files. So you need to boot into pure DOS and do it from there. But if the partition is NTFS, the standard pure DOS available on Win9x won't recognize it, so you need a tool like the NTFSDOS Professional.

Originally posted by Alec§taar:

"WRONG: You did not read lower into the thread where I posted, where I typed this"

I did read it, I just chose to reply to the low-level/magnet part of your post only. I assumed you meant in jokingly, so I joked back.

Originally posted by Alec§taar:

"Look before you leap, & try to correct me my man, I did list a way to burn individual files securely, & with a program I WROTE MYSELF as well!"

Ah, excuse me. Did anyone ask you "how do I delete files so that even the best recovery tools can't resurrect them?" Did you even read the original question? Really, it seemed like all you wanted to do was to brag about the "mega-kewl" program you wrote. Well, let me compliment you on your programming skills, which are without a doubt better than my own, and let me also compliment your ego, which is once again, without a doubt, bigger than my own.

Originally posted by Alec§taar:

"And, if you read the intial topic as I did? The phrase "how to VIOLENTLY delete files from a partition" is the same as "delete ALL files from a partition" to me @ least because of the use of the word partition (meaning doing a logical disk section entirety)..."

.

Oh, I get it. So now you're going to tell me what I meant in my original topic. Now, I suppose you could claim that my choice of title "how to VIOLENTLY delete files from a partition" was misleading (evidently, it confused you), but if you at least bothered to read the original post, not the title, you'd quickly understand what problem I was trying to address, and that talking about magnets and federal data eradication policies is at the very least irrelevant.

Originally posted by Alec§taar:

"Still, I covered what you tried to cut me down for, as well... ONCE MORE, you had best read ALL of what I write in its entirety next time around! apk"

Funny, I should say the same to you, since you clearly didn't bother to read what I wrote in my first post. Or maybe you did read it, but chose to ignore. In which case you shouldn't assume that I didn't read what you wrote just because I didn't reply to it.

Good read, thanks Alec.

I subscribe to the SecurityFocus Forensics mailing list, and there's always interesting discussions going on there, as well as legal issues.

Actually it is similar to SANS, although more categorized. SecurityFocus is the home of BugTraq, which you've no doubt heard of.

I subscribe to the 'digest' mailings, which have several threads in one email for easier reading (and less clutter).

Of course all of the lists can be read online too, here: http://securityfocus.com/archive

Originally posted by Alec§taar:

"Wow... lol! You MUST be way way into the security stuff... you a network admin? You've gotta be... & from the appearances of it, one that stays ontop of his game regarding security!"

Yep, I am. Thanks, too, for the nice words. It's really an interesting and fulfilling job for me

LOL, Alec. Come on, man, you're just blabbing.

If you read and understood my original post (not just topic title - which you seem to be sticking too much to), you'd see that all I wanted was something to let me run DELTREE over a system directory on an NTFS drive, which is something I obviously can't do while Windows is running and something the Windows recovery console doesn't allow me and something I can't do from a FAT32 OS Bootdisk, because it cannot see NTFS partitions.

But even after I found a solution myself and posted here that I found it, you came and started talking about your program. With your experience and understanding of computers, couldn't you see that it was completely irrelevant? Did I, or anyone else in this topic exhibit interest in secure destruction of data, which makes it unrecoverable? And please, don't mention again that this is how you understood the topic title. Titles do not matter, many people just post something like "HELP". It's the contents that matters.

I don't mind that you and Adam had a nice chat in this topic on things that interest you and have no relevance to the topic itself, as I found my solution. But I do mind being treated as stupid and talked to in a condescending manner.

Actually dr_st, I thought when going into this thread it was going to be about permanent deletion of files as well. Then after reading your first sentence of your post I thought that was surely what it was about. But then by the end of your post I really wasn't sure exactly what you wanted. Did you want a way to permanently delete files, or did you want a way to delete just the os files? Now I know it was the latter, but in that case using the word violently and the phrase 'without a trace' was misleading. But let's forget about that. More importantly if you are going to post on a help forum and ask for help, that is what you did, do not attack the people that are trying to help you. Let's say he was trying to promote his program, it was still relevant to your request, thus it was still help, or an attempt at it.

"But I do mind being treated as stupid and talked to in a condescending manner."

It's the internet, relax.

Lastly, Alec, he's not worth your replies.

I've been on this forum for an hour or so and I've already noticed that Alec answers almost everyone's questions. That is why I felt like posting this. dr_st needs to be more grateful imo.

dr_st I am sure you will attack my post, but I'm not going to reply. This is a computer help forum, flaming has no place here. If you got what you needed then stop posting rants.

"Actually dr_st, I thought when going into this thread it was going to be about permanent deletion of files as well. Then after reading your first sentence of your post I thought that was surely what it was about. But then by the end of your post I really wasn't sure exactly what you wanted. Did you want a way to permanently delete files, or did you want a way to delete just the os files? Now I know it was the latter, but in that case using the word violently and the phrase 'without a trace' was misleading. But let's forget about that."

Fine. Let's conclude that I really screwed up there and couldn't formulate my request properly. Happens to the best of us.

"More importantly if you are going to post on a help forum and ask for help, that is what you did, do not attack the people that are trying to help you."

I never attack anyone unless provoked. When someone talks to me like I'm an idiot and says things like Alec said in his post from 2004-07-24 07:22:37, I consider that provoking.

"It's the internet, relax."

I'm pretty relaxed. I can be deeply cynical and vicious when relaxed, just like I can be Mr. Kindness even when nervous.

"dr_st needs to be more grateful imo."

Luckily, your "imo" means nothing on this matter. I'm always grateful when people help. I try to be grateful if a person just tries to help, even if in the end he doesn't. Here I stopped being grateful at the instant I picked up the condescending vibes, because like I said, this is something I don't like.

"dr_st I am sure you will attack my post, but I'm not going to reply."

Right on the money, chief.