"Originally posted by Alec§taar:
Ah, it's cool... he's just a proud guy that is convinced he's right!"

So are you.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"So are you."

Heck, I am probably the WORST this way you have EVER seen... & I will admit it! Nothing wrong with having faith in yourself... but by the same token, it's good to be strong enough to apologize & admit when you're wrong!

(I've done that over time a few times, Once or Twice here iirc, out of respect for others & to avoid fights etc., they're not worth it!)

*

(However? I think I can count the number of times I've been wrong in forums on one hand over 10 years now on topics, technical ones that is! That is not bragging, it's just fact...!)

APK

So, my last post said? Sorry if you feel I was acting condescending to you as you stated... fair enough?



I did feel I answered your questions though on the topic: I offered you a way to 'violently' delete files on a partition either by -

1.) Destroying the partition outright & in the most secure manner I know of via a low-level disk format

OR

2.) Destroying files individually using a tool I created that has defeated any undelete tool I used against it

(The latter is what you said last page I did not offer a means for & I stated you should read my entire posting before attempting to correct me on it... you took offense, & I meant none man!)

APK

P.S.=> Let's let 'bygones be bygones' & move on... gotta go to work now, on a Saturday no less, but gotta go, gotta go... stay cool! apk

This isn't about being right or wrong here, it's about understanding the question and providing a relevant answer, which you didn't do (Don't argue with me here, please, I know what's relevant to me). In part it was because I probably didn't formulate my request clearly enough and for that I apologize.

Bygones.

All your insults aside (like saying I was 'blabbing' above, when you did not come back, Adam & I had a subdiscussion about a topic he brought up instead)... I can take it, my skin's thicker than that.

I am out to help you help yourself, & maybe even learn something new too for a particular situation that is off-the-wall etc.

I mean, given the data & facts you give us, which you modified as YOU went along & did not state to us fully/cleanly it was confusing to myself & others what you wanted.

Others in the topic apparently agreed with me & you apologized yourself for making a mistake in this regard in fact!

BUT, it's cool, it's done & we now know what you wanted by your 6th post!

I never meant to belittle you either, because I felt (like others) that I answered your initial posting, then you changed it to recursively deleting thru a single command (deltree) later on. We can give you that too!

Below, there is a DELTREE.BAT file you can use that will/should do the job, & if you cannot use it while Windows is running? Increase your Administrative Group or better level users' NTFS filesystem directory-folder rights on disks + files/folders-directories as needed using Explorer.exe right-clicks properties menus, security tabs.

This is the part I am not understanding from your end... why can't you alter those &/or why should you have to? Administrative group users should have enough filesystem ownership by default to not make NTFS filesystems rights a problem... & you can increase other users rights too!

Also: I see you mentioned Sysinternals tools above, did this help? I would like to know... thanks!

Originally posted by dr_st:

"If you read and understood my original post (not just topic title - which you seem to be sticking too much to), you'd see that all I wanted was something to let me run DELTREE over a system directory on an NTFS drive, which is something I obviously can't do while Windows is running and something the Windows recovery console doesn't allow me and something I can't do from a FAT32 OS Bootdisk, because it cannot see NTFS partitions."

Did you say you wanted a DELTREE solution in the initial post? NO! It took you 6 posts to get that out!

Ok, now that you've stated a 'deltree' was what you wanted? Try this:

@echo off
IF "%1"=="" goto help_display
IF "%1"=="/?" goto help_display

IF NOT EXIST %1 goto dir_not_exist

echo Deleting %1 ...
erase /f /s /q %1 > nul
rmdir /s /q %1 > nul
echo Directory %1 is removed

goto end

:dir_not_exist
echo The specified directory %1 does not exist.
goto end

:help_display
echo DELTREE for Windows 2000/XP by Tim Braes (c) 2002
echo.
echo Usage : deltree [directory] [/?]
echo [directory] - removes the whole directory
echo [/?] - displays this screen
echo.
:end

Again though - Why can't you do this batchfile while windows is running? Once more - Your administrative group users SHOULD have enough 'oomph' by default @ NTFS filesystems level control to do this! (& if not? Increase their userrights levels via Explorer right clicks of files &/or folders!)

EDIT PART - Another VERY powerful command is DEL itself... it has a commandline set of switches in 2000 onwards that allow ALMOST deltree like function in its /F & /S commands (like UNIX rm -rf recursive force destroy of files).

Check it out:


C:\>del /?
Deletes one or more files.

DEL [/P] [/F] [/S] [/Q] [/A[[:]attributes]] names
ERASE [/P] [/F] [/S] [/Q] [/A[[:]attributes]] names

names Specifies a list of one or more files or directories. Wildcards may be used to delete multiple files. If a directory is specified, all files within the directory will be deleted.

/P Prompts for confirmation before deleting each file.
/F Force deleting of read-only files.
/S Delete specified files from all subdirectories.
/Q Quiet mode, do not ask if ok to delete on global wildcard
/A Selects files to delete based on attributes
attributes R Read-only files S System files
H Hidden files A Files ready for archiving
- Prefix meaning not

If Command Extensions are enabled DEL and ERASE change as follows:

The display semantics of the /S switch are reversed in that it shows you only the files that are deleted, not the ones it could not find.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"But I do mind being treated as stupid and talked to in a condescending manner."

If you don't have enough saavy of this stuff (although stating the deltree command says to me you do) to state your question properly? WELL, What do you want from any of us?? We could only work with what you gave us, which you changed more as you went, initially to start with.

Guy: You never mentioned recursive function being desired on your first 5 postings in this thread... you admit this yourself!

PLUS, We never meant to say you were stupid, that's YOUR interpretation & reality is just a matter of personal perception! We're actually trying to help you man!

(We only posted what might work, given the facts we were given (which you did not put out correctly for us to understand properly))!

Again: You NEVER stated you wanted a deltree solution until your 6th post in here... NOW, You've got a DELTREE solution up there that should work, or one you can adapt further to your needs if need be & alter to your own unique purposes & if you have to?

Play with those NTFS userrights on the filesystem to make it work (this is where I am not understanding you fully, apparently... why not just increase those, & why are the default Administrative level NTFS rights not enough?)

Additionally - Are you working from Recovery Console or something ONLY? If so, just so you know, you can use tools like secpol.msc (&/or possibly gpedit.msc to increase the folders & files it has access to by default just so you know... so you can operate on files/folders outside of %WinDir% & its subfolders too, there is a settings in one of those 2 tools that allow users access to folders outside of %WinDir% & its subordinates... if you need help on that, ask more! There's no native deltree solution in RC though that I am aware of @ least... have you found one if this is where you are working from?)

APK

P.S.=> Another VERY powerful command is the DOS batch FOR command that aids in recursion... this type of batch could do this as well:

Cd\ %1
FOR %%f IN (*.*) DO DEL /F /S %%f
EXIT

%1 being the root folder to start this from, & it uses the DEL /F & /S force & recurse switches as well to remove subfolders/subdirectories too if needed... This one is one I just cooked up & might need some work on your end, but is a HELL of alot shorter than the one I provided above I found online!

What was your solution you said you found, I am curious on that & might pickup a new trick here too... thanks! apk
[Edited by Alec§taar on 2004-08-08 10:42:33]

APKDeltree.bat

Uses FOR command for recursion abilities + DEL /F /S commandline for additional recursion & %1 commandline variables for input for folder to start from!

(Also, ONLY 18 lines vs. 20 lines of other I put up above by Mr. Tim Braes - Shorter & more efficient, alter it as you need to for your purposes):

----------------------------------------------------------------

@ echo off
REM @ stop first line echo off display, may not need @ in XP/2003
IF "%1"=="" goto help_display
IF "%1"=="/?" goto help_display
IF NOT EXIST %1 goto dir_not_exist
cd %1
FOR %%f IN (*.*) DO attrib -r -h -s -a /S *.*
REM Pull protective attribs recursively /S from files to delete (you could use cacls or xcacls from reskit to pull or add NTFS rights as needed too)...
REM rmdir /s /q %1 > nul (optional line for directory/folder removals also, commented off... apk)
FOR %%f IN (*.*) DO DEL /F /S %%f
goto end
:dir_not_exist
echo The specified directory %1 does not exist.
goto end
:help_display
echo APKDeltree for Windows 2000/XP/2003 by APK (c) 2004
echo.
echo Usage : APKDeltree [directory] [/?]
echo [directory] - removes the whole directory
echo [/?] - displays this screen
:end
REM cd\
REM cd\ returns to the root folder & clean it too with next line
REM attrib -r -h -s -a *.*
REM del *.*
REM EXIT
REM EXIT can close the DOS terminal console session window when done working recursively as well as a bonus... (optional) apk

----------------------------------------------------------------



Works, & again is shorter than the DELTREE commandline batchfile online I found for you online by Mr. Tim Braes that will give you a DELTREE (rm -rf Unix style delete files & folders recursive force type command) analog & thus, slightly MORE EFFICIENT!

Again, alter it to your needs as you see fit. Cleaning the root folder (last lines before EXIT) &/or adding rmdir lines can make it REALLY clean the disk too! I left mine above to just wipe out a folder you send it to destroy the files in ONLY... but left out the destruction of the folders & cleaning up root too! You might need that according to your statements.

Now, if you really wanted to 'go-to-town' on this? Add the cacls &/or xcacls NT reskit tools usage too, to make it be able to mess with NTFS filesystems permissions/userrights too that you ran into (I don't know how OR why you did above, you could alter that, but this takes care of that too if you extend it with it more)... Also, your adding the rmdir directory destructions are something you might wish to add as well! That is up to you & your needs!

I'd like to see it if you do that & your tests results on your final version... building essentially, a UNIX-like rm -rf commandline here is what this COULD be & sounds like what you wanted all along now that we know you wanted recursion like DELTREE too!

* HEY, This could be some fun to co-create something cool like that with you I think as others here could use it as well! Better than arguing stupid points on both our ends I say, just because we didn't understand exactly what you wanted early on & now we do!

----------------------------------------------------------------

TESTS I USED ON IT BEFORE PUTTING IT OUT FOR YOU TO TEST IT/TRY IT/ALTER IT TO YOUR SPECIAL NEEDS HERE:

I tested it today by creating a "TEST" folder with "TEST2" subfolder beneath it with files inside of both & it worked... all the files in C:\TEST and its subdirectory-subfolder C:\TEST\TEST2 were indeed, gone!

* ENJOY!

APK

P.S.=> Done & in final form as I need it here! However again, you can alter it for those NTFS filesystems rights changes using cacls.exe OR xcacls.exe from NT Reskits tools, & even add in the directory removal line by uncommenting it above too + root folder cleaning doublecheck @ end before EXIT lines (which you could uncomment & use in batches that call this one via CALL batchfile directives)...

Let us know how it works out for you & put it out too if you would! apk

[Edited by Alec§taar on 2004-08-08 13:06:59]

[Edited by Alec§taar on 2004-08-08 13:10:19]

@ echo off
tree %1
IF "%1"=="" goto help_display
IF "%1"=="/?" goto help_display
IF NOT EXIST %1 goto dir_not_exist
cd %1
FOR %%f IN (*.*) DO attrib -r -h -s -a *.* /S
REM Could use cacls or xcacls from reskit on NTFS rights... apk
FOR %%f IN (*.*) DO DEL /F /S %%f
goto end
:dir_not_exist
echo The specified directory %1 does not exist.
goto end
:help_display
echo APKDeltree for Windows 2000/XP/2003 by Alexander Peter Kowalski (c) 2004
echo.
echo Usage : APKDeltree [directory] [/?]
echo [directory] - Deletes Entire Folder Tree Structure
echo [/?] - Displays this Help Screen
echo.
:end
cd\
rd %1 /s /q
echo %1 Directory/Tree structure and files now deleted... apk
REM move /Y %1 > nul
REM Last 2 Lines for directory/folder removal, both work... apk
REM EXIT
REM EXIT Close DOS terminal console window... (optional) apk



(That's the version that will not ONLY remove the files in the tree folder/directory & subfolder/subdirectory structure, but also the folders/directories as well!)

* ENJOY!

APK

P.S.=> A bit longer now, but NOW? It also shows you the tree of the folder structure you deleted as well as signalling it is done + shows files it removes as it does them also & from where... totally informative & gives you an idea for tracking purposes of what it did on the job onscreen as it does it! apk

"All your insults aside (like saying I was 'blabbing' above, when you did not come back, Adam & I had a subdiscussion about a topic he brought up instead)... I can take it, my skin's thicker than that."

"Blabbing" did not refer to your convo with Adam, but to you constantly trying to prove to me that you answered my question, when I was saying you didn't. My apologies again for being misunderstood.

"I mean, given the data & facts you give us, which you modified as YOU went along & did not state to us fully/cleanly it was confusing to myself & others what you wanted.

Others in the topic apparently agreed with me & you apologized yourself for making a mistake in this regard in fact!"

Normally I don't get misunderstood in issues like this. At least not by people who have a clue. You definitely have a clue, which is why I am still surprised you couldn't understand my problem, even considering the fact that I didn't formulate it clear enough (again, seemed to me pretty standard a problem for everyone to understand, even without me giving graphic descriptions of typing DELTREE C:\WINDOWS)

"This is the part I am not understanding from your end... why can't you alter those &/or why should you have to? Administrative group users should have enough filesystem ownership by default to not make NTFS filesystems rights a problem... & you can increase other users rights too!"

Here's a challenge:
(1) Log in as the administrator with all the administrative rights and privileges.
(2) Shut down all processes except the system processes you can't shut down (and Explorer, which needs to be running)
(3) Try to delete C:\WINDOWS (or whatever your Win dir is).
(4) Tell me what happened.

The administrative rights are not the problem. The problem is during run time you cannot delete files which are protected by running processes. A lot of files in the Windows directory are just like that. To simplify, I always delete the Windows directory from DOS. To do that I needed a utility which will allow me to see and manipulate NTFS folders from DOS.

In case you are now thinking to write "Well, if this is all you wanted, why didn't you just say it?!" I apologize in advance once more for being too unclear.

"Also: I see you mentioned Sysinternals tools above, did this help? I would like to know... thanks!"

Yes, like I said, NTFSDOS Professional helped. It allows just that: manipulating files on NTFS drives freely from DOS environment. BTW, it's scary how it completely seems to ignore administrative rights. Or maybe I haven't looked into it enough yet.

"Ok, now that you've stated a 'deltree' was what you wanted? Try this:
*BATCH FILE*"

I know how to use DEL, RD, DELTREE and ATTRIB, thank you.

"Play with those NTFS userrights on the filesystem to make it work (this is where I am not understanding you fully, apparently... why not just increase those, & why are the default Administrative level NTFS rights not enough?)"

Irrelevant. Not the problem. Hope this time my above explanation was clear enough. If it wasn't, this time I'm not going to apologize.

"If you don't have enough saavy of this stuff (although stating the deltree command says to me you do) to state your question properly? WELL, What do you want from any of us?? We could only work with what you gave us, which you changed more as you went, initially to start with.

Guy: You never mentioned recursive function being desired on your first 5 postings in this thread... you admit this yourself!
"

When someone tells you he wants C:\WINDOWS gone, what pops to your mind?

"NOW, You've got a DELTREE solution up there that should work, or one you can adapt further to your needs if need be & alter to your own unique purposes & if you have to?"

Here's a shorter one:

ATTRIB -R -H -S DIR_I_WANT_TO_DELETE
CD DIR_I_WANT_TO_DELETE
ATTRIB -R -H -S *.* /S /D
CD ..
RD DIR_I_WANT_TO_DELETE /S

"What was your solution you said you found, I am curious on that & might pickup a new trick here too... thanks! apk"

I hope that you know the answer to this already having read down to here.

"* HEY, This could be some fun to co-create something cool like that with you I think as others here could use it as well! Better than arguing stupid points on both our ends I say, just because we didn't understand exactly what you wanted early on & now we do! "

Jesus ****, man. Why reinventing the wheel? Create an NTFSDOS Professional floppy, boot from a DOS/Win9x floppy, launch NTFSPRO.EXE and type a few commands from the command prompt. Why build a batchfile even?

The more I talk, the more I think that it's not an issue of you misunderstanding my initial question, it's an issue of me and you having COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AND INCOMPATIBLE PATTERNS OF THOUGHTS. LOL. Or maybe we are both just too stubborn for our own good.

Have fun and thanks for wasting so much of your time on me. And I mean, wasting, yes, because the solution was ready before your first post in this topic took place.

EDIT: Having re-read my first post again... Yeah, you are completely right. It wasn't clear. I put in some irrelevant stuff and left out some relevant stuff. The problem is that I take some things for granted, while they aren't. Once again, my most sincere apologies.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Here's a challenge:
(1) Log in as the administrator with all the administrative rights and privileges.
(2) Shut down all processes except the system processes you can't shut down (and Explorer, which needs to be running)
(3) Try to delete C:\WINDOWS (or whatever your Win dir is).
(4) Tell me what happened."

Recovery Console's what I would use in this case... it runs from its own folder on disk, & can probably do this as well (especially if altered to access folders other than %WinDir%, which is an initial default limitation it has by default).

I have not tried it though, because normally from my end if I run into a hassle where I want to "nuke" the %WinDir%? I reinstall...

Originally posted by dr_st:

"The administrative rights are not the problem. The problem is during run time you cannot delete files which are protected by running processes. A lot of files in the Windows directory are just like that. To simplify, I always delete the Windows directory from DOS. To do that I needed a utility which will allow me to see and manipulate NTFS folders from DOS."

Again, I'd use Recovery Console to circumvent running processes (turning them off if I have to using ListSvc & Enable/Disable) & rebooting & trying it once more... as again, RC runs from its own folder on disk, not from %WinDir% afaik.

Heh, next time I reformat (just did new setup on Win2k SP#4 here for some tests of programs I wrote which tested fine on XP, now to continue tests on 2k SP#4 on them), I will give this a shot though, cannot hurt, because if I'm ready to reformat & reinstall? Heck, this is worth an experiment to find out what RC can really do!

Originally posted by dr_st:

"In case you are now thinking to write "Well, if this is all you wanted, why didn't you just say it?!" I apologize in advance once more for being too unclear."

Don't sweat it... bottom line is we are ALL on the 'same page' now I would say & solutions abound from each of us in this thread... To quote Microsoft: "WHERE DO YOU WANT TO GO TODAY?"

We've got in this thread, what looks like SEVERAL avenues to results here on this account/scenario you submitted.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Yes, like I said, NTFSDOS Professional helped. It allows just that: manipulating files on NTFS drives freely from DOS environment. BTW, it's scary how it completely seems to ignore administrative rights. Or maybe I haven't looked into it enough yet."

Nifty, I have never used that tool, but I can see it being able to do that stuff... RC should be able to, but I have never utilized it for blasting %WinDir% off the diskmap... be a GOOD experiment for me to try before I try my next format & reinstall of my drives to see if RC == NTFSDos in abilities here!

(And, I'll remember it too... lol, how could I forget after this techno-babble we've had here, you know?)

Originally posted by dr_st:

"I know how to use DEL, RD, DELTREE and ATTRIB, thank you."

Cool, getting a gauge of your know-how levels is all.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Irrelevant. Not the problem. Hope this time my above explanation was clear enough. If it wasn't, this time I'm not going to apologize."

No need for apology, I got your 'experimental scenario' up there... Again, @ that point here? I would reformat & reinstall... but still, I am curious if Recovery Console can handle that duty & scenario in your experimental challenge up there!

(I'd say it can since it runs from its OWN folder/directory, & can be made to access folders other than %WinDir% & its subordinates via secpol.msc OR gpedit.msc iirc... one of those two can set that so that other folders are accessible to it other than just %WinDir% & its subtree!)

Originally posted by dr_st:

"When someone tells you he wants C:\WINDOWS gone, what pops to your mind?"

* FORMAT & REINSTALL!

Originally posted by dr_st:

"
Here's a shorter one:

ATTRIB -R -H -S DIR_I_WANT_TO_DELETE
CD DIR_I_WANT_TO_DELETE
ATTRIB -R -H -S *.* /S /D
CD ..
RD DIR_I_WANT_TO_DELETE /S

"

It'll do the job, except for error-trapping if folders don't exist & you send it to attack files/folders that you don't have (typos etc.)... + I don't see how it is taking in parameters to make it flexible (batches use %1-%9 commands to pass parameters into them). If you issue those manually, yes, it'd do the job & recursively... but I think you missed the DEL or ERASE commands in it completely here... am I missing something?

Typo on your end I think...

(But, the points I made on it are there for you to correct them on (or, just use my batch or Tim Braes up there earlier in this thread as either works from batch, & thus? Give you a Win9x/DOS style DELTREE command w/ full errtrapping & such!)).

Originally posted by dr_st:

"I hope that you know the answer to this already having read down to here."

Pretty much... NTFSDos is a tool I am aware of, but never have had to use thusfar.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Jesus ****, man. Why reinventing the wheel? Create an NTFSDOS Professional floppy, boot from a DOS/Win9x floppy, launch NTFSPRO.EXE and type a few commands from the command prompt."

I have not used NTFSDos here, thank-goodness or had to ever (not saying its bad, it's not but I am glad I have not gotten into a situation where I had to is all).

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Why build a batchfile even?"

Because they work... & don't require the use of 3rd party tools which you MAY or MAY NOT have & that means downloading them, learning them, & hoping they fit the bill etc.

Recovery Console might do it, but that batch above? Gives you a working DELTREE which you requested that works... not on %WinDir% while active though... this is where I would have tried RC (but if I want to blow %WinDir%? I reformat & reinstall...)

Originally posted by dr_st:

"The more I talk, the more I think that it's not an issue of you misunderstanding my initial question, it's an issue of me and you having COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AND INCOMPATIBLE PATTERNS OF THOUGHTS. LOL. Or maybe we are both just too stubborn for our own good."

I just didn't understand what you wanted based on topic alone @ first & by the time you posted you wanted a DELTREE, I was responding to your earlier posts where you were unclear is all... by the time I got to your DELTREE command request, I made up one that accounts for TONS of things you mention you ran into & it works pretty well & has FULL ERROR TRAPPING & the whole 9 yards.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Have fun and thanks for wasting so much of your time on me. And I mean, wasting, yes, because the solution was ready before your first post in this topic took place."

I don't consider helping or trying to help others a waste of time... even if we go 'off-on-tangents' due to unclear topic desires etc. (which happens on & off now & then etc.).

It's ALWAYS good review!

Originally posted by dr_st:

"EDIT: Having re-read my first post again... Yeah, you are completely right. It wasn't clear. I put in some irrelevant stuff and left out some relevant stuff. The problem is that I take some things for granted, while they aren't. Once again, my most sincere apologies."

No biggie, & the point is we have a pretty good technical post here with some cool ideas + knowledge in it for anyone looking to have ways to do what you desired.



* Personally, once we got the arguing outta the way & egos? It turned up PRETTY GOOD!

APK

I think I can now sum it up.

When you want to reinstall Windows FROM SCRATCH, you have two options basically. First one is indeed format the partition, but as I explained, sometimes it's a thing you don't want to do, because you may have lots of valuable stuff on that partition with no means or no will to back it up.

To have a clean install without formatting, you need to erase the exact directories that I mentioned in my first post.

You cannot delete them properly while Windows is running. Like I said, it's not an issue of administrative rights, but of files being protected by the run-time module. Your batchfiles won't do the trick here, because all they do is call the systems delete commands, which will not work, because of the above mentioned protection. You will simply run into many files which will give you the famous "Access is denied" message.

BTW, your comment on my suggested batchfile not having DEL or ERASE, look closer: RD /S in Win2K/XP = DELTREE in DOS/Win9x. That's why I said that your batchfiles are reinventing the wheel - there is a built-in deltree in 2K/XP. Not sure about NT, though, I don't think I ever used it.

Your next suggestion, the recovery console, was the first thing I tried. As you guess, it didn't work. It's funny that the RC allows you to run format on a partition, but doesn't allow you to run RD over a selected directory (Access is denied). So, unless there are some more complicated ways to get the RC to allow you to RD a direcory, it is not an option here too.

Hence, I was looking for a way to get a pure DOS environment with full access to any NTFS volumes. Since the NT OSes don't run over true DOS, they don't provide you with such tools. I couldn't find any 2K/XP bootdisk to allow me to do that either. That's when I ran into NTFSDOS Pro.

The great thing about NTFSDOS Pro is that it makes any NTFS partitions look like regular FAT/FAT32 partitions to the OS, allowing you to use any OS commands on these files in Win9x environment. BTW, apparently it won't work with DOS 6, as I originally thought (I tried it with Win98SE bootdisk).

You can find yourself in need to access the hard drive from pure DOS from various reasons. For example, just a few days ago I had a totally fatal WinXP crash (REGISTRY_ERROR 0x51). It wouldn't boot normally, it wouldn't boot in safe mode, it wouldn't boot to the recovery console, it wouldn't even boot ERD Commander 2003 (a full-featured Win-style recovery environment by Winternals, the same guys that made NTFSDOS).

This situation is pretty rare, but if it happens - you absolutely cannot access anything on the hard disk except from pure DOS. What do you do if you have some crucial files there and you need them?

If the partition is FAT32, you can use a regular Win9x bootdisk. If the partition is NTFS, you get the same result with Win9x bootdisk + NTFSDOS Pro.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"I think I can now sum it up. When you want to reinstall Windows FROM SCRATCH, you have two options basically. First one is indeed format the partition, but as I explained, sometimes it's a thing you don't want to do, because you may have lots of valuable stuff on that partition with no means or no will to back it up."

One should ALWAYS do backups... current ones! Not everyone does I guess, I do it like religion (on some data? Daily... others on Sundays).

It should mean Recovery Console could/should be able to get online as a means of being able to backup data then though, or @ least worth a shot to try, as it has FixMBR &/or FixBoot commands in it too & ordinarily, right after I install RC & reboot?

I myself, have to set Recovery Console to be able to work on directories/folders other than the default %WinDir% one.

That is what I do the minute after it is installed next bootup, & reboot after its installation & then reset it to be able to do that! Great for using it for recovery of personal data, & also its FixMBR &/or FixBoot commands.

* Works, has saved my tail before in many a situation having RC around, & in backup/restore scenarious quite often.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"To have a clean install without formatting, you need to erase the exact directories that I mentioned in my first post."

Clean install without formatting isn't possible?

You can install another instance of Windows into other folders you know... say, WindowsXP install to C:\WINNT or Windows2000 to C:\WINDOWS.

(No law against that! It can be done & you'd have access to your system again, NTFS files permissions or not, because reinstallation of Windows makes the Administrator of that disk the default owner of it if it is NTFS... & since you are not allowing format? This works!)

Originally posted by dr_st:

"You cannot delete them properly while Windows is running."

There are tools like INUSE.EXE from the reskit that can do things to files that are "in-motion" (in-use) at the moment when other apps are accessing them or they themselves... OR, if a file is locked it can help also iirc!

Another alternate OS install can circumvent that above as well... hence, part of why having a secondary logon is considered wise, or second OS install (but, there can be catches doing this if you count on using the 2nd install @ all for things other than backdoor onto disks again if 1st install messes up. Things with IE settings, outlook express, etc. & probably shared public access shell folders too being messed up sometimes!)

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Like I said, it's not an issue of administrative rights, but of files being protected by the run-time module. Your batchfiles won't do the trick here, because all they do is call the systems delete commands, which will not work, because of the above mentioned protection. You will simply run into many files which will give you the famous "Access is denied" message."

ATTRIB -R -H -S DIR_I_WANT_TO_DELETE
CD DIR_I_WANT_TO_DELETE
ATTRIB -R -H -S *.* /S /D
CD ..
RD DIR_I_WANT_TO_DELETE /S

Your batch most certainly won't... I don't see this RD /S there @ at all its contents from above that you typed out. Mine will, with help from the reskit, check it out (INUSE.exe) for MANY things no less, even replacing files that are in use (what that tool is about, kind of like how I pointed out cacls.exe could be put into my batch).

Never said batchfiles would work outside of Windows itself being logged onto either, but deltree is possible!

However, if you used a TOOL like inuse.exe on these files locked by themselves OR another process? Like how I did a REM statement for cacls.exe OR xcacls.exe above but subbing in INUSE.EXE from the reskit??

It'd work for renaming the files (at the very least if not deleting them right there), & next reboot it'd be fine!

Originally posted by dr_st:

"BTW, your comment on my suggested batchfile not having DEL or ERASE, look closer: RD /S in Win2K/XP = DELTREE in DOS/Win9x. That's why I said that your batchfiles are reinventing the wheel - there is a built-in deltree in 2K/XP. Not sure about NT, though, I don't think I ever used it."

I put it up anyhow as a recorded deltree method that I know works... the RD /S is one I was not aware of even, which is cool to know it can work (but not on hidden, or readonly files, where my batchfile? Does...)!

My batch & the other before it? Superior technically... They're NOT reinventing the wheel @ all, only IMPROVING it...

Again: They're BOTH superior to RD /S (which your batch did not have @ all in its content I can see going line by line thru it) in the case of Hidden OR ReadOnly directory folder contents... RD /S won't work on that, my batchfile, will!

(Try it yourself, & see on some folders in a tree with hidden &/or readonly files in them, & try to delete using RD /S @ the root of the tree... won't work!)

My batchfile? Again, conversely will! Thus my batchfile single line command "APKDelete" with switches is technically superior to RD /S you mention... and can be extended for user rights removals/alterations as well OR potentially with INUSE.EXE as well by using commandline reskit tools freely obtained (afaik, those 2 are on the freebie tools list by MS)!

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Your next suggestion, the recovery console, was the first thing I tried. As you guess, it didn't work. It's funny that the RC allows you to run format on a partition, but doesn't allow you to run RD over a selected directory (Access is denied). So, unless there are some more complicated ways to get the RC to allow you to RD a direcory, it is not an option here too."

It would be if you went @ it file-by-file, directory-by-directory, which is TIME CONSUMING as HELL!

(Some of the tools in RC? I hate... copy will not use wildcards, etc. is a GOOD example of why I think @ least it needs a commandset update/upgrade!)

(I.E.-> RD in recovery console is NOT recursive... it seems like command.com circa DOS 3.3 @ best on many of its commands, with some NT specific commands for drivers/services/formatting etc. @ best in RC commandset!)

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Hence, I was looking for a way to get a pure DOS environment with full access to any NTFS volumes. Since the NT OSes don't run over true DOS, they don't provide you with such tools. I couldn't find any 2K/XP bootdisk to allow me to do that either. That's when I ran into NTFSDOS
Pro."

Costs money, only downside to that... sounds like a decent tool, I don't use it myself (never had misfortune yet to have had to is why).

Originally posted by dr_st:

"The great thing about NTFSDOS Pro is that it makes any NTFS partitions look like regular FAT/FAT32 partitions to the OS, allowing you to use any OS commands on these files in Win9x environment. BTW, apparently it won't work with DOS 6, as I originally thought (I tried it with Win98SE bootdisk)."

Good to know about DOS 6.xx not working w/ it, I have DOS 5.0 around on floppies... BUT, let's hope I don't ever have to use it period!

Originally posted by dr_st:

"You can find yourself in need to access the hard drive from pure DOS from various reasons. For example, just a few days ago I had a totally fatal WinXP crash (REGISTRY_ERROR 0x51). It wouldn't boot normally, it wouldn't boot in safe mode, it wouldn't boot to the recovery console, it wouldn't even boot ERD Commander 2003 (a full-featured Win-style recovery environment by Winternals, the same guys that made NTFSDOS)."

Sounds good to have around for those kinds of situations, I have one of those around once every 2-3 years @ most & keep backups daily/weekly of things until then & use tools like Roxio GoBack OR Recovery Console here.

The former tool? Excellent... Ghost is great too by Symantec along with personal data backups of your own to Cd-rom, DvD-rom, or zipdrive media, etc. (all done here weekly).

BACKUPS: So crucial... to serious users @ least, or those that hate wasting time.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"This situation is pretty rare, but if it happens - you absolutely cannot access anything on the hard disk except from pure DOS. What do you do if you have some crucial files there and you need them?"

I'll agree its rare, 2nd OS install OR Rc FixBoot &/or FixMBR should work to recover it!

Again - You can install an alternate bootup install of Windows to get to your data in the event of your primary install going south. Alternately, there is the Recovery Console FixMBR &/or FixBoot Commands that can get you out of alot of what you stated here too... worth trying first, cost you nothing but install & prep time for them to work!

(VERY doable & HIGHLY RECOMMENDED for databackup purposes alone, a 2nd OS bootup possible installation...!)

Originally posted by dr_st:

"If the partition is FAT32, you can use a regular Win9x bootdisk. If the partition is NTFS, you get the same result with Win9x bootdisk + NTFSDOS Pro."

Again, 2nd OS install (or RC tools for recovering bootsector or bootrecord in FixMBR or FixBoot) can get you past this without needing NTFSDos, wouldn't you say?

(... &/or use of regular backups (of course) of your personal data. Just good habits on the latter!)



APK
[Edited by Alec§taar on 2004-08-10 18:39:16]

"One should ALWAYS do backups... current ones!"

Yeah, but if you want to always do current backups of everything, you'll end up doing nothing but running backups. So in the end, most people do selective backups of their important data every once in a while.

"You can install another instance of Windows into other folders you know... say, WindowsXP install to C:\WINNT or Windows2000 to C:\WINDOWS."

Yeah, you can. But there are also "Program Files" and "Documents and Settings" and the files in the root folder, and I don't want to trust Windows to be able to throw the old junk out itself, so I prefer to delete this junk myself prior to installing.

"Your batch most certainly won't... I don't see this RD /S there @ at all its contents from above that you typed out."

Are you blind?

"However, if you used a TOOL like inuse.exe on these files locked by themselves OR another process? Like how I did a REM statement for cacls.exe OR xcacls.exe above but subbing in INUSE.EXE from the reskit??"

Dunno, never tried. Don't care enough.

"Again: They're BOTH superior to RD /S (which your batch did not have @ all in its content I can see going line by line thru it)"

I'll ask again: are you blind?

"in the case of Hidden OR ReadOnly directory folder contents... RD /S won't work on that, my batchfile, will! "

What makes you say RD /S won't work on hidden/system/read-only files/directories, when it clearly does work? So, unless you count the verbose messages as an improvement, it's really nothing but reinventing the wheel.

"It would be if you went @ it file-by-file, directory-by-directory, which is TIME CONSUMING as HELL!

(Some of the tools in RC? I hate... copy will not use wildcards, etc. is a GOOD example of why I think @ least it needs a commandset update/upgrade!)

(I.E.-> RD in recovery console is NOT recursive... it seems like command.com circa DOS 3.3 @ best on many of its commands, with some NT specific commands for drivers/services/formatting etc. @ best in RC commandset!)"

Conclusion: RC is crap?

"BACKUPS: So crucial... to serious users @ least, or those that hate wasting time."

Unless you reach to the point where you start wasting more time on backing stuff up than on working.

"Again, 2nd OS install (or RC tools for recovering bootsector or bootrecord in FixMBR or FixBoot) can get you past this without needing NTFSDos, wouldn't you say?"

First of all, not always. In the example I brought, nothing related to Windows would boot - not Windows, not Safe Mode, not RC, not installer, not third-party tool. That was truly a hideous crash.

Besides, what's simpler / more efficient: installing a second OS or launching NTFSDOS from a floppy?

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Are you blind?"

Nope, I don't see you passing in %1 - %9 as parameters for the directories names so your batch can take variable parameters!

(Unless things have changed, last I knew you had to use %1 to pass in first parameter, %2 as a second paramters, & so on up to 9 possible passeable parameters in batch files).

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Dunno, never tried. Don't care enough."

INUSE.exe is a pretty valuable tool from the reskit... great for batchfiles work & installations possibly if script driven. For those times you want to replace say, a .DLL file that is locked by the Operating System during operation, which you cannot even rename (another trick for file replacements on reboot)? InUse.exe from the Reskits for 2000 can be a saviour.

* Keep this one in mind... can bail you outta jams!

Originally posted by dr_st:

"I'll ask again: are you blind?"

Nope, I am just wondering how you're passing parameters into your batchfile? Again, last I knew? You had to use command.com style syntax for parameters passing in batch %1 - %9 etc. as I stated & used above.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"What makes you say RD /S won't work on hidden/system/read-only files/directories, when it clearly does work? So, unless you count the verbose messages as an improvement, it's really nothing but reinventing the wheel."

The errtrapping is a good thing, good programs of anykind (even batches) should have them... heck, I could have done errlevel testing too & should have on returns from attrib, & rd etc. as well!

The help message on how to use it? Just good measure & professional look/feel to it... just like a DOS command should be, as little used as they are by folks nowadays (dying artform).

This is WEIRD, but read on (because I tested it earlier is why & it would not work believe it or not):

The RD /S will not work on folders/directories, or their subfolders here on Windows 2000 SP #4... I just did an experiment for that in fact when I wrote that up above!

Made the TEST folder again, with TEST2 as its subdirectory, & copied over cmd.exe into them both, & applied ReadOnly & Hidden attributes to BOTH cmd.exe's copies housed in TEST & TEST2 directory/subdirectory respectively & ran RD TEST /S on them... I got this error message:

"The directories are not empty"

& it left test & test2 intact! Which is why my batch uses the attrib command in recursive mode to blow out attribs like ReadOnly &/or Hidden, or System on files... I would not have used it otherwise, unless needed (cannot hurt to put in though).

(Now, the STRANGEST part?? It did it now a second time & it worked... Pretty WEIRD!!! Seems to work now, oddest damn thing I ever saw, lol, kid you not... I ran that test earlier & it would not do it... now it does!)

Originally posted by dr_st:

"
Conclusion: RC is crap?"

It needs a commandline update/upgrade I think personally... missing wildcards on copy? That is a PAIN... bigtime pain!

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Unless you reach to the point where you start wasting more time on backing stuff up than on working."

If you do it manually, would take time: However, here? Well, I automate (schedule) this for me to occur & it either waits onscreen for me to turn it on, or the app itself has scheduling of its own sometimes (like Diskeeper etc.), & this is part of my Sundays etc., set these in motion while I do Sunday stuff like Church, family, & relax.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"First of all, not always. In the example I brought, nothing related to Windows would boot - not Windows, not Safe Mode, not RC, not installer, not third-party tool. That was truly a hideous crash."

FixMBR, &/or FixBoot (iirc, RC commandline tools names) would not fix it for you? Yea, that's PRETTY BAD! Here's where second OS installs might not help you either though... if the bootsector is NOT reparable etc.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Besides, what's simpler / more efficient: installing a second OS or launching NTFSDOS from a floppy?"

Depends... Second OS I know how to use, just like first one. I am not sure how NTFSDos works, but I can use other things to do it for me that I own already!

Also on 2nd Operating System to boot to option? I additionally don't have to spend on it either, not a cent!

This being a MAIN concern: The "Holy Dollar", deadpresidents/coins, ca$h...

APK

P.S.=> There is always the method additionally, of taking your harddisks from the affected (downed) PC, & putting them into another PC with a C:\Drive booting 2000/XP/2003 & putting your blown disk into it and reading its data to this new PC's hdd & copying the data that way... after taking ownership of the newly inserted disk from the old system, getting past filesystem rights & restrictions (if any) too...

There's always a workaround, or method, that does not need NTFSDos, & I've shown a few I think! apk

"Nope, I don't see you passing in %1 - %9 as parameters for the directories names so your batch can take variable parameters!"

Before you haven't said anything about %1 - %9, you said you couldn't see RD /S, when it's there. Make up your mind.

Then replace DIR_YOU_WANT_TO_DELETE with %1, if you want. I wasn't thinking batch files when I wrote it, as I would never write a batch file for something as simple as RD /S. In fact, as was discovered, everything can be replaced with a single call to the RD /S command.

"The errtrapping is a good thing, good programs of anykind (even batches) should have them... heck, I could have done errlevel testing too & should have on returns from attrib, & rd etc. as well!"

For a task as simple as deleting a directory, 99% of the time it will be getting on your nerves rather then being useful.

"FixMBR, &/or FixBoot (iirc, RC commandline tools names) would not fix it for you? Yea, that's PRETTY BAD! Here's where second OS installs might not help you either though... if the bootsector is NOT reparable etc."

It had nothing to do with the bootsector, I believe. The hard disk was just fine and so was the data. It would initiate the boot process, and then crash with the registry error. It wouldn't even let me get to the point where I could execute FIXMBR or anything.

"Depends... Second OS I know how to use, just like first one. I am not sure how NTFSDos works, but I can use other things to do it for me that I own already! "

Oh. Well, let me tell you how NTFSDOS Pro works:

1) You type NTFSPRO
2) You press enter

The simplicity is what bought me here.

"There's always a workaround, or method, that does not need NTFSDos, & I've shown a few I think!"

No doubt there are, but I'm not convinced any of them will allow you 100% deletion of all system files and a fresh install, and if they do, it may become tedious, and definitely not worth my time. That's where NTFSDOS kicks in.

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Before you haven't said anything about %1 - %9, you said you couldn't see RD /S, when it's there. Make up your mind."

No... you wrote this in regards to MY batchfile code above & the reasons I figured you were going batch were the first line:

"Here's a shorter one:

ATTRIB -R -H -S DIR_I_WANT_TO_DELETE
CD DIR_I_WANT_TO_DELETE
ATTRIB -R -H -S *.* /S /D
CD ..
RD DIR_I_WANT_TO_DELETE /S"

That's a shorter set of commands, if done manually... but it won't work if written as a batchfile (@ least not flexibly taking in %1 as the foldername to fry).

(When you stated "Here's a shorter one", that to me, indicates you were creating a batchfile as I did... )

Plus, RD /S? Well, in the test I did above?? It needs NO attributes removals on FILES (on folders I did not test that but odds are, probably not that either unless you tested diff. on ReadOnly on folder names) it looks like from my tests with ReadOnly & Hidden attributes applied to files either, just so you know that! RD /S fried files I had hidden & readonly applied to in my tests that worked & that I did right!)

Originally posted by dr_st:

"Then replace DIR_YOU_WANT_TO_DELETE with %1, if you want. I wasn't thinking batch files when I wrote it, as I would never write a batch file for something as simple as RD /S. In fact, as was discovered, everything can be replaced with a single call to the RD /S command."

It'd work probably thru replacing those names of folders with %1 for flexibility!

(Oh also: I know why my test didn't work originally on RD /S with the hidden + readonly files I used - I typed it in without the /S (I thought I did, I guess I didn't have it take on the commandline), & you get the error I saw earlier "The Directory is not Empty" type feedback).

Originally posted by dr_st:

"For a task as simple as deleting a directory, 99% of the time it will be getting on your nerves rather then being useful."

In this case, since RD /S can work? It can do the job fine ALL by itself, & NO attrib removals needed either!

(This commandline switch for RD /S is a new one on me, things have changed since I used that command I see! Oh well, live & learn... this is a good one to learn.)

Originally posted by dr_st:

"It had nothing to do with the bootsector, I believe. The hard disk was just fine and so was the data. It would initiate the boot process, and then crash with the registry error. It wouldn't even let me get to the point where I could execute FIXMBR or anything."

A second Operating System installation would allow you to retrieve your data for backup then... & not cost a DIME!

Pretty easy, no cost, & would work... rather than purchasing
NTFSDos!

Originally posted by dr_st:

"
Oh. Well, let me tell you how NTFSDOS Pro works:

1) You type NTFSPRO
2) You press enter

The simplicity is what bought me here."

Sounds nice enough, easy enough... but, costs come into the picture & I don't see it offering anymore than another same version NT based OS installation would give you in this case... simple data recovery via booting into another on-disk instance of the OS to bootup into to nab the data &/or back it up!

Originally posted by dr_st:

"No doubt there are, but I'm not convinced any of them will allow you 100% deletion of all system files and a fresh install, and if they do, it may become tedious, and definitely not worth my time. That's where NTFSDOS kicks in."

I don't see why another OS install as another bootup option does not seem like it would make sense for data recovery & later restorations once the data is backed up using 2nd OS bootup?

Another installation WILL let you get to the failed Os' copy of its files, as well as others on that disk just fine... by default? Once you setup an Operating System of NT based variety, it gives Admins rights to the data on the drives, & you can even take ownership of it etc. & set FULL rights on the total disk's content (& you'll see the ADMINISTRATOR user from the failed Os' listed as a GUID in the rights section).

All files, ALL or ANY of them, from the old OS & your personal data (the MAIN stuff to get & backup).

* No questions there, I have had to do that myself & keep a second install online for this very reason!



(BIGGEST PAIN? Synching them on Service Packs & hotfixes... & keeping sure that OE & IE are synched up... I still think doing daily or @ least weekly backups are the BEST medicine though!)

APK

P.S.=> Other than that? Not TRULY troublesome installing that 2nd OS copy for data emergency backup purposes (should install it from the outset once the first OS copy is installed though, & before you begin building data files that the Shell folders store by default under profiles... this way, once you start making data? The files are not overwritten by a LATER installation in those common ShellFolders both OS will try to create (installing WAY later? Could fry those default Common ShellFolders possibly))

NO COST too, bonus, & safe if you do BOTH Os setups @ once (or rather, one after the other so you do not torch the common ShellFolders areas like MyDocuments etc.)!

Again: There is always the method additionally, of taking your harddisks from the affected (downed) PC, & putting them into another PC with a C:\Drive booting 2000/XP/2003 & putting your blown disk into it and reading its data to this new PC's hdd & copying the data that way...

This latter hardware primarily based method would work, after taking ownership of the newly inserted disk from the old system, getting past filesystem rights & restrictions (if any) too... apk

Hi dr_st,

You may also find this interesting:

http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/bootdisk.html

It allows read-write access to NTFS for the purpose of registry editing and password resetting, but you could also use it to rename or delete previous Windows install directories.

(By the way, I don't think you have anything to apologise for in your initial post -- clearly AlecStaar did not comprehend the question correctly.)

Originally posted by SeaOfGoats:

"(By the way, I don't think you have anything to apologise for in your initial post -- clearly AlecStaar did not comprehend the question correctly.)"

I stuck to the topic as it was stated strictly & later dr_st switched gears on us 6 posts into this thread, then saying he wanted a DELTREE command!

Before he stated he wanted DELTREE? Well, because of the way the topic sounded (which others agreed with me on no less on the last page)??

I offered first 2 ways to go about this that cost nothing in:

1.) File by file delete securely (which various programs, including one I have created, will do if you are able to get online onto the OS that is)

2.) Low level disk formatting (most disk oem's provide these BUT obliterate everything)

* The first two worked until the poster stated later in his 6th posting in this thread he wanted a "DELTREE" (ala DOS/Win9x) type of command... So, this next set of suggestions was used:

3.) When dr_st replied later in his 6th post in, that he wanted a "Deltree" type command? I found a batchfile that will work on pretty much ANY Microsoft Os type as well as creating another one myself as a variation of it using the FOR command...

Additionally: Dr_St discovered that the RD /S commandstring will function in this manner as well, a DELTREE effect (w/out the need to use attrib -r -h -s -a commands as his batch above used either), so my batch & his are 'overkill' & all either needs is 1 line:

RD /S really!

This works on Win2000/XP/2003 with ease as a deltree analogue, no attrib command needed either: Will take out & destroy all subordinate file & folder entries regardless of their DOS type attributes.

4.) Recovery Console is another method if set to allow access to folders other than %WinDir% & its subordinate folders/directories... albeit manual, since for instance COPY does not allow wildcarding (for backup purposes it can do it, but is a PAIN) so I am assuming RC's DEL is just as much a no-wildcard pain too (could be wrong here). RC can work as well... just more time consuming & manually done due to no wildcarding allowed in many of its commands!

5.) There is always the method additionally, of taking your harddisks from the affected (downed) PC, & putting them into another PC with a C:\Drive booting 2000/XP/2003 & putting your blown disk into it as a secondary disk and reading its data to this new PC's hdd & copying the data that way for backup...

(Taking ownership of the second disks filesystem as well if NTFS, easily done & the other admin from the other install will be seen as a GUID which can be removed if one wishes while taking ownership of said drive's filesystem for recovery purposes!)

LASTLY -

6.) A Second Operating System instance installation (which will let you blow off an entire other operating system instance easily since it defaults to making the Administrator of the newly installed second (or more) OS install instance the owner of the disks iirc... Again, taking ownership of the disk is simple as well via NTFS filesystem rights if needed, & the other admin from the other installation (originally installed OS on this disk to have data recovered from) will be seen as a GUID which can be optionally removed also).

* The last one? Doesn't cost a dime, since you have Operating installation Cd-roms already... It's also been recommended online over time to allow another way onto disks to recover personal data even if one Operating System installation instance fails on you!

(However, again, programs like IE & Outlook can get problems here, so you just synch them up version-wise to the latest service packs etc. on both OS installs)).

7.) Your solution also looks like another possible for someone in his place as well @ NO COST!

I've seen that tool used to change passwords, & had NO idea it could be used for file/folder deletions as well: Bonus!

8.) Lastly, there is NTFSDos but this costs money for the FULL model.

APK

P.S.=> Overall? This was a good thread, we all learned a new set of tricks, & I was not aware that RD /S was as powerful as it is, in effect/essence? A 'deltree' command when used with the /S recursive subdirectory-subfolder removal as well! apk

It's ok, I know what was said as I already read the thread in its entirety.

Just to clarify the part of my post that you replied to -- the essence of his initial question was how to delete files that a running system always has open, and thus locked from deletion. He wasn't asking for general purpose deletion solutions, and therefore had no need to apologize for his initial question getting answers from you that didn't solve his problem.

Hope this clears up what I meant.

Yeah, I add my apologies into the mix as well, as I kind of caused the thread to get off-topic.

Not sure if Alec or anyone else for that matter mentioned this, but if you want a semi-GUI for the DELTREE (exclusively for removal of 'Program Files' and 'Windows/WINNT') you may want to look at Bart's PE Builder.

And again, I'm sorry, hopefully there's no hard feelings or anything. My only reason for posting at this site is to help others, and hopefully my semi-offtopic posts can someday be useful to another reader.

Cheers.

Originally posted by adamvjackson:

"Yeah, I add my apologies into the mix as well, as I kind of caused the thread to get off-topic."

That's cool of you, but no big deal: Look @ all the nutty GOOD stuff that came outta this thread... we ALL learned some good things, & that's A-OK by me!

Originally posted by adamvjackson:

"Not sure if Alec or anyone else for that matter mentioned this, but if you want a semi-GUI for the DELTREE (exclusively for removal of 'Program Files' and 'Windows/WINNT') you may want to look at Bart's PE Builder."

Never knew that program could do madness & lunacy like that either... another decent point!

Originally posted by adamvjackson:

"And again, I'm sorry, hopefully there's no hard feelings or anything."

Heck, why should there be? Alot of good stuff/knowledge & tips + tricks came outta this & the majority? Free... creative cookery maybe on some of them, but they ALL work (just some more of a PAIN in the you-know-what than others is all, but doable).

Originally posted by adamvjackson:

"My only reason for posting at this site is to help others, and hopefully my semi-offtopic posts can someday be useful to another reader.

Cheers."

Exactamundo!



* Cheers right back at you!

APK

"You may also find this interesting:

http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/bootdisk.html

It allows read-write access to NTFS for the purpose of registry editing and password resetting, but you could also use it to rename or delete previous Windows install directories."

Ah, nice! Thank you.

Well, I never did assume there would only be one tool (NTFSDOS) that can do it. It's really a task that often needs to be done by administrators or plain "power users" such as myself.

"(By the way, I don't think you have anything to apologise for in your initial post -- clearly AlecStaar did not comprehend the question correctly.)"

No, he didn't. But that was in part because I didn't formulate it in the clearest way I could, so I will not try to dodge guilt here.

"Lastly, there is NTFSDos but this costs money for the FULL model."

And the free read-only model is useless for my case, although for the sake of rescuing files to another HD it might be just right.

"It's ok, I know what was said as I already read the thread in its entirety."

Wow! That is some work!

"Just to clarify the part of my post that you replied to -- the essence of his initial question was how to delete files that a running system always has open, and thus locked from deletion. He wasn't asking for general purpose deletion solutions, and therefore had no need to apologize for his initial question getting answers from you that didn't solve his problem."

Again, to me and to you it was clear what I wanted, but re-reading that first post of mine I realized that indeed I left too many options to misinterpret it, thus I apologized.

"Not sure if Alec or anyone else for that matter mentioned this, but if you want a semi-GUI for the DELTREE (exclusively for removal of 'Program Files' and 'Windows/WINNT') you may want to look at Bart's PE Builder."

It was the first thing that was offered (by Curley_Boy, see the beginning of thread). I actually tried it, but never did get it to install - it seemed to want an XP CD with SP1, and I didn't have one at the time. Too much trouble for the likes of me, so I ditched it. Now I have NTFSDOS if I just want to do what I started this thread for and ERD Commander 2003 if I want a graphical rescue environment.

It seems as though a solution has already been found. But here is another idea.
Try download a version of knoppix linux that has full nfts read/write support Kanotix. Just download the ISO, burn, and pop it in your CD drive (Its a live CD, there is no installation, it runs fully from the CD). You just boot up and it gives you a full linux graphical distrobution that has the ability to read and write to your ntfs drive. You can then delete the windows directory and leave the stuff you actually want.
Give it a try, I us Knoppix all the time while building systems, its much easier to do a full burn in test of all the components before putting windows on.

Originally posted by kref1:

"It seems as though a solution has already been found. But here is another idea.
Try download a version of knoppix linux that has full nfts read/write support Kanotix."

Why, thank you too! I actually have a Knoppix CD. A friend, who's a Linux freak has insisted on giving it to me. I don't know if it has Kanotix, though. I must admit shamefully, that I feel much more comfortable with DOS than with Linux, though.

DR_ST, you may be interested in knowing that the Offline NT Password & Registry editor that was linked to above was just updated a few days ago, apparently fixing a bug that could happen when writing back to the NTFS partition.

So should you use it, I would recommend an upgrade. I just happened across that page a few days ago, and it's definately a great, great tool.

Cheers