Let's face it
This is a discussion about Let's face it in the Windows Hardware category; I've installed W2K about ten times now, everytime I install it I do so because there is a new fix or new drivers that will allow me to play games better. But I have come full circle. Windows 2000 will never be a gamers os.
I've installed W2K about ten times now, everytime I install it I do so because there is a new fix or new drivers that will allow me to play games better. But I have come full circle.
Windows 2000 will never be a gamers os.
There are just to many problems that will prevent it from every being that. MS as we can all see is not interested in us so I guess we will have to just either use 98 or Millenium when it is released.
Just my opinion,
What do you think?
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Windows 2000 will never be a gamers os.
There are just to many problems that will prevent it from every being that. MS as we can all see is not interested in us so I guess we will have to just either use 98 or Millenium when it is released.
Just my opinion,
What do you think?
...
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Guys.. im a Beta Tester for MS. I can tell you that Windows 2000 is and OS NOT for the home consumers. This OS is not been made for Gameing. This is the same NT with new features (like PNP,more user friendly) like NT 4.0 was supposed to be at first place.
Do you guys want to know why MS is building Millennium? they say: MOST USERS CANT HANDLE NT.
Sure.. you can play most of the games because the new features like DX7 and all that,but still.. this is not a OS for gaming.
MS has said that 100 of times in the newsgroups.
Do you want to play with the performance of Win98? and the power of Win 2000?
Wait until 2001 when they release "Windows NEPTUNE".
Dont keep waisting your time. I also want to add that it is good that all companies work in their drivers in beta stages with the OS. That gives you the confidence that when it the product hits GOLD, they will work.
So with all these beta drivers having problems on the run, why you should expect a driver to work with the final product?
Are they going to make the driver and the exact moment when the OS hits GOLD?
that sounds stupid... the quality of the driver is not pretty trustable.
these are my 2 cents.
[This message has been edited by peaje (edited 13 December 1999).]
Do you guys want to know why MS is building Millennium? they say: MOST USERS CANT HANDLE NT.
Sure.. you can play most of the games because the new features like DX7 and all that,but still.. this is not a OS for gaming.
MS has said that 100 of times in the newsgroups.
Do you want to play with the performance of Win98? and the power of Win 2000?
Wait until 2001 when they release "Windows NEPTUNE".
Dont keep waisting your time. I also want to add that it is good that all companies work in their drivers in beta stages with the OS. That gives you the confidence that when it the product hits GOLD, they will work.
So with all these beta drivers having problems on the run, why you should expect a driver to work with the final product?
Are they going to make the driver and the exact moment when the OS hits GOLD?
that sounds stupid... the quality of the driver is not pretty trustable.
these are my 2 cents.
[This message has been edited by peaje (edited 13 December 1999).]
Hello peaje so am I.
Your wrong peaje Win2000 will make a damn nice gameing system as well apps.
Games developer & Apps developer have ***** for DX in NT4 Hmm I wonder why ?.
So it ture it not as fast as Win9x OS
so what do know why ? I tell you why most games & apps are build around Win9x system
& WinNT.
Millennium is Dos base & suck from word go.
Wrong agine you mean 2002 or 3 then they will release "Windows NEPTUNE" home consumers ver base on NT kernel.
"MOST USERS CANT HANDLE NT" Frist time User yes that would be ture if they never had Computer before.
1 let start with fact that Win2000 has DX7 & there ICS & DVD & High End CD Player
from Win98 Plus! & IIS now why would any Buiss want this In Win200oPro they don't we home consumers do we work at home so we need best of both worlds.
Your wrong peaje Win2000 will make a damn nice gameing system as well apps.
Games developer & Apps developer have ***** for DX in NT4 Hmm I wonder why ?.
So it ture it not as fast as Win9x OS
so what do know why ? I tell you why most games & apps are build around Win9x system
& WinNT.
Millennium is Dos base & suck from word go.
Wrong agine you mean 2002 or 3 then they will release "Windows NEPTUNE" home consumers ver base on NT kernel.
"MOST USERS CANT HANDLE NT" Frist time User yes that would be ture if they never had Computer before.
1 let start with fact that Win2000 has DX7 & there ICS & DVD & High End CD Player
from Win98 Plus! & IIS now why would any Buiss want this In Win200oPro they don't we home consumers do we work at home so we need best of both worlds.
Still.. Windows 2000 is not for the HOME USERS.
Oh yeah.. it has the "best of both worlds" but is not created for Gameing.
I know is easier now to deal with NT. And maybe the new computer user will be easier to deal with it. But the main issue is there.
This plataform is better than NT.4 as User interface and some PnP adittions and NOW WE HAVE AT LAST A DEVICE MANAGER!! but still this aint no Game plataform.
That we are going to run games nicely on Windows 2000?? of course we are, but not at smoth like we run it on Win98 or Millennium.
Im testing Windows Millennium right now, Yeah.. is still DOS based.. but with no REAL DOS MODE. Is it faster? well let me tell you that this systems boots in 40 seconds and i have my system very load it with apps and stuff.
I have at work a QUANTEX DUAL P-III 450 and a GATEWAY PERFORMANCE P-III 500 at home both have 128 RAM and TNT2 and etc.. etc.
Let me tell you that most of the games perform SUPERB!! on Millennium than in Windows 2000. Even Q3 Arena using SMP on the Quantex (QUANTEX GIVES 56 FPS) The gateway (Does 54 FPS) and it only uses 1 processor.
I hope the new games up coming for the next year and the companies that makes their drivers do something to optimize the performance of games on Windows 2000 plataform.
Sorry.. but it doesnt perform like it should for games.
Oh yeah.. it has the "best of both worlds" but is not created for Gameing.
I know is easier now to deal with NT. And maybe the new computer user will be easier to deal with it. But the main issue is there.
This plataform is better than NT.4 as User interface and some PnP adittions and NOW WE HAVE AT LAST A DEVICE MANAGER!! but still this aint no Game plataform.
That we are going to run games nicely on Windows 2000?? of course we are, but not at smoth like we run it on Win98 or Millennium.
Im testing Windows Millennium right now, Yeah.. is still DOS based.. but with no REAL DOS MODE. Is it faster? well let me tell you that this systems boots in 40 seconds and i have my system very load it with apps and stuff.
I have at work a QUANTEX DUAL P-III 450 and a GATEWAY PERFORMANCE P-III 500 at home both have 128 RAM and TNT2 and etc.. etc.
Let me tell you that most of the games perform SUPERB!! on Millennium than in Windows 2000. Even Q3 Arena using SMP on the Quantex (QUANTEX GIVES 56 FPS) The gateway (Does 54 FPS) and it only uses 1 processor.
I hope the new games up coming for the next year and the companies that makes their drivers do something to optimize the performance of games on Windows 2000 plataform.
Sorry.. but it doesnt perform like it should for games.
How many times do people need to say "this is a beta" before the concept of a Beta OS sinks in?
Not to be critical, but everyone has these problems which is the result of drivers, and naturally, it somehow ends up being Microsoft's fault. I would assume it will probably be April before we see decent drivers from all the big firms.
My personal favorite is the LiveWare hack. Everyone seems to use it, but in the process, you end up tossing DirectSound. At least the WDM drivers provide hooks, whereas the NT4 drivers do not. Personally, I opted for the WDM drivers. As for video cards, to the best of my knowledge, NVidia is the only firm to provide a passable driver (which has yet to support AGP). Which is a shame since I have a Rage 128 =)
There also seems to be this crowd of Millennium fans out there. Which is quite funny since the general consensus is that development is being discontinued. See this article for more: http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Content/7775_01.html . There are other articles, but this was the most handy.
Anyway, I just wanted to stop lurking and spout off. My hair was beginning to recede from the stress of reading.
DrSchmoe
[This message has been edited by DrSchmoe (edited 15 December 1999).]
Not to be critical, but everyone has these problems which is the result of drivers, and naturally, it somehow ends up being Microsoft's fault. I would assume it will probably be April before we see decent drivers from all the big firms.
My personal favorite is the LiveWare hack. Everyone seems to use it, but in the process, you end up tossing DirectSound. At least the WDM drivers provide hooks, whereas the NT4 drivers do not. Personally, I opted for the WDM drivers. As for video cards, to the best of my knowledge, NVidia is the only firm to provide a passable driver (which has yet to support AGP). Which is a shame since I have a Rage 128 =)
There also seems to be this crowd of Millennium fans out there. Which is quite funny since the general consensus is that development is being discontinued. See this article for more: http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Content/7775_01.html . There are other articles, but this was the most handy.
Anyway, I just wanted to stop lurking and spout off. My hair was beginning to recede from the stress of reading.
DrSchmoe
[This message has been edited by DrSchmoe (edited 15 December 1999).]
I'm glad that other members are posting things like this. FWIW, the following should be noted:
Fact: W2K is still beta.
Fact: Many IHV's will not release ANY drivers until after W2K goes GOLD.
Fact: The product codenamed "NETPTUNE" will be a convergence product - a consumer OS based on the common NT kernel. This was going to be "Millenium" but MS decided not, mainly due to a lack of WDM drivers.
Fact: MS want IHVs to write WDM drivers.
Fact: WDM drivers (possibly with simple recompile) will run under both Win9x and W2K.
maybe i'll add more later
Fact: W2K is still beta.
Fact: Many IHV's will not release ANY drivers until after W2K goes GOLD.
Fact: The product codenamed "NETPTUNE" will be a convergence product - a consumer OS based on the common NT kernel. This was going to be "Millenium" but MS decided not, mainly due to a lack of WDM drivers.
Fact: MS want IHVs to write WDM drivers.
Fact: WDM drivers (possibly with simple recompile) will run under both Win9x and W2K.
maybe i'll add more later
Sure, Neptune will be the convergence product, but the reason for scrapping Millennium doesn't necessarily have to do with WDM support (that would be thinking like a techie...)
Rather, now that Jim Allchin is in charge of the unified Windows division he is looking to keep development and operating costs at a minimum. Maintaining two code bases doesn't do that. Sticking to one code base also helps improve quality of the remaining product by concentrating talent.
In essence, Microsoft is starting to "circle the wagons" at the competitive threat of Linux (many claim potential DOJ remedies are the reason for the reorganization, but I dispute that). Furthermore, hardware vendors can focus on developing one set of drivers, thereby increasing driver quality and the perceived value of Windows.
Fact: MS wants IHVs to write *stable* drivers =)
In theory, WDM drivers do not require recompiling to run on 2K or 9x, however, this only works for the sound and printer subsystems. WDM driver support for video was not included in any current non-beta iteration of 9x (to the best of my knowledge).
Back to work...
DrSchmoe
[This message has been edited by DrSchmoe (edited 15 December 1999).]
Rather, now that Jim Allchin is in charge of the unified Windows division he is looking to keep development and operating costs at a minimum. Maintaining two code bases doesn't do that. Sticking to one code base also helps improve quality of the remaining product by concentrating talent.
In essence, Microsoft is starting to "circle the wagons" at the competitive threat of Linux (many claim potential DOJ remedies are the reason for the reorganization, but I dispute that). Furthermore, hardware vendors can focus on developing one set of drivers, thereby increasing driver quality and the perceived value of Windows.
Fact: MS wants IHVs to write *stable* drivers =)
In theory, WDM drivers do not require recompiling to run on 2K or 9x, however, this only works for the sound and printer subsystems. WDM driver support for video was not included in any current non-beta iteration of 9x (to the best of my knowledge).
Back to work...
DrSchmoe
[This message has been edited by DrSchmoe (edited 15 December 1999).]
Peaje, Win2k is for the consumer. Why, stability!! I work at a bank where the majority of the workers there own personal PC's. Most of them use the computer not for games, but for speadsheets, email, and internet. Stabilty is the reason why they should get win2k. Everyday, I troubleshoot the win9x based machines due to the bad kernel they are based on. But rarely the windows NT machines. Face it, the only good thing about the win9x kernel is the price and the ability to run games well. But if I typing a lengthy report that due on the bosses desk soon, I'll do it on my win2k machine. I dont need a win 95 crash to happen. When I go online, like what I am doing right now, the TCP/IP stack on the win2k is much better than win 95 even after the msdun1.3 upgrade. Yes, there needs to be better drivers made, but that will come in time. It will soon when the D3d will be a dead API,now that GLIDE is now open source. And glide runs great on my Voodoo2 with win2k.
I've had an SMP box at home since '95 with OC'ed P90s, have tried any games on hand at first chance... I admit don't know anymore the quality of GEEKs now a day, for those crying over W2K betas and SMP, I shed you a tear... SNIFF..SNIFF...you gonna want me holding your hand too???
DrSchmoe - don't forget that an OS core convergance has been the MS plan for then last 5+ years - pretty much since the first version of NT.
Don't regard the recent change of management as a change of core direction.
Don't regard the recent change of management as a change of core direction.
True,
However, when MS initially planned the convergence it was to increace their margins. At that time, I seriously doubt they ever saw a competitve threat.
I think scrapping Millennium and their reorganization was more reactive to Linux. Perhaps they pushed up the timetable a bit.
Besides, we already know that the system requirements for Neptune will be significantly steeper than Millennium (which I am assuming based on the requirements of 2K).
A lot of consumers might not be happy since their machines will not be "worthy." At least 9x runs fairly well on low end pentiums (non-MMX, assuming 32MB min.)
Anyway, has anyone tried Win 3.11 lately? I installed it to have some fun. I think I booted in 2-3 seconds. By the time my CRT was warm, the desktop was already up. It makes me want a solid state drive =)
DrSchmoe
[This message has been edited by DrSchmoe (edited 15 December 1999).]
However, when MS initially planned the convergence it was to increace their margins. At that time, I seriously doubt they ever saw a competitve threat.
I think scrapping Millennium and their reorganization was more reactive to Linux. Perhaps they pushed up the timetable a bit.
Besides, we already know that the system requirements for Neptune will be significantly steeper than Millennium (which I am assuming based on the requirements of 2K).
A lot of consumers might not be happy since their machines will not be "worthy." At least 9x runs fairly well on low end pentiums (non-MMX, assuming 32MB min.)
Anyway, has anyone tried Win 3.11 lately? I installed it to have some fun. I think I booted in 2-3 seconds. By the time my CRT was warm, the desktop was already up. It makes me want a solid state drive =)
DrSchmoe
[This message has been edited by DrSchmoe (edited 15 December 1999).]
Give OS/2 Warp 4 a try on fast P2 300a or better HEHE 12sec on 300a before I overclock it 450a now it 8sec wow I never saw warp move that fast hehe yup win3.1 shore dose fly on P2 one blink holy cow I'am already in win3.1
Tim Wrote
"I work at a bank where the majority of the workers there own personal PC's. Most of them use the computer not for games, but for speadsheets, email, and internet."
Well Thats what im talking about. Of course is a superb OS for running aplications internet and FOR WORK. What im talking about here is for the home consumer. Of course you can bring work at home but when you use your computer at home is mostly for entretaiment.
Thats why running games smothly is so important at home. Win2k is not good at that and probably wont be (remember NT SUCKS FOR GAMING?).Even if it comes with PNP or DirectX 7. We really have to wait to see if MS will support this OS for Gameing.
As the fact that W2k is still on Beta, hehe let me tell you that wont be lots of changes from the latest beta to the final product. Windows 2000 will still be buggy when it hits the market.. you can bet on that.
Remember NT? 6 services packs.
I dont know if MS will do services packs for Windows 2000 or OSR for it like Win95 or Win98 did with their OSR2 and SE editions.
That still a big question.
[This message has been edited by peaje (edited 15 December 1999).]
"I work at a bank where the majority of the workers there own personal PC's. Most of them use the computer not for games, but for speadsheets, email, and internet."
Well Thats what im talking about. Of course is a superb OS for running aplications internet and FOR WORK. What im talking about here is for the home consumer. Of course you can bring work at home but when you use your computer at home is mostly for entretaiment.
Thats why running games smothly is so important at home. Win2k is not good at that and probably wont be (remember NT SUCKS FOR GAMING?).Even if it comes with PNP or DirectX 7. We really have to wait to see if MS will support this OS for Gameing.
As the fact that W2k is still on Beta, hehe let me tell you that wont be lots of changes from the latest beta to the final product. Windows 2000 will still be buggy when it hits the market.. you can bet on that.
Remember NT? 6 services packs.
I dont know if MS will do services packs for Windows 2000 or OSR for it like Win95 or Win98 did with their OSR2 and SE editions.
That still a big question.
[This message has been edited by peaje (edited 15 December 1999).]
ok...how about this....w2k isnt intended as a gaming platform, but it is{oops i guess microsoft made a mistake}, i have all my games running on w2k with the exception of some lame ass games that are specifically written for winblows 98, yes your right, win98 boots up real fast but thats to make up for ALL the times you have to reboot, my w2k machine is only restarted when i install a new app or upgrade to the next build. so youre a beta tester? SO, do you know how many beta testers there are out there? in the scheme of things your not but a pimple among a million pimples. just becuase your signed up for microsoft's beta testing program doesnt make you an expert on the direction that microsoft is going....tell me what do they do call you up at night and ask: " hey peaje this is bill, do you think we ought to make w2k a gaming platform? { and i picture you scratching your head and saying: "well bill, remember windows nt? it sucked for gaming." dont you think there is a reason they dont have the WORKSTATION tacked on the end of windows2000? this os is a broad spectrum os. i have installed it on all of my machines but one...what i really like about it is after i get done working up my weeks expenses or a couple of spreadsheets on a couple of computers i have going out during the week, i fire up q3 and play a few rounds on the internet...hmmm..sounds like a real crappy gaming platform to me. guys like you will come in here and discourage ppl from using this on their home machines when it is a perfectly fine os for home or office use....so just give it up, just about everybody here is using it for biz and gaming applications and its performing well i might add. for every guy that comes in here with problems there are a dozen that are running it problem free.
this is my opion and i could be wrong
this is my opion and i could be wrong
I agree with the concensus Win2K will be made for games. Why? 1 reason if Win2K wasnt going to made for gaming then why even make a Professional version just make a server and advanced server version, and make millenium work with NT. But since NT is the future kernal for MS OS's you need to remember that some companies will need to have an OS to make their games work with before everything goes to NT hence W2K Professional, the OS for Businesses and Home users. So if 2K wasnt going to made for gaming you would see a bigger market push toward Suckinium the last patch for Windows 98. Also I read someplace that Millenium is just a gap between 98 and the next OS they come out with, and most users WONT upgrade to it. Plus if it wasnt for games there would be no need to advance OSes or Hardware!
The stirring conversation is what keeps bringing me back!! There are two issues that I think need addressing
1.)"Why release Millenium" - The word you are looking for is Marketing!! Have you seen the price difference between NT and 98? Win2K needs to be out a little while before MS can convince(force) everyone to migrate.
2.)When this sucker goes gold, I want drivers that function!! Properly and completely!! That is what beta time is for. If people are too damn impatient to wait for the driver that works, write one yourself and see what fun it is. Me? I'd rather cut them some slack and get a FINAL (STESSED WORD HERE) driver that functions as it should. Your copy of Win2K was FREE!!!! Be happy!! This is why they don't release beta software to the public. Everybodies always in a hurry. My Win2K box runs fine. Still on RC2 and happy. If it blows up, who cares, it's a beta.
I'm with Seldzar, lets all get along.
1.)"Why release Millenium" - The word you are looking for is Marketing!! Have you seen the price difference between NT and 98? Win2K needs to be out a little while before MS can convince(force) everyone to migrate.
2.)When this sucker goes gold, I want drivers that function!! Properly and completely!! That is what beta time is for. If people are too damn impatient to wait for the driver that works, write one yourself and see what fun it is. Me? I'd rather cut them some slack and get a FINAL (STESSED WORD HERE) driver that functions as it should. Your copy of Win2K was FREE!!!! Be happy!! This is why they don't release beta software to the public. Everybodies always in a hurry. My Win2K box runs fine. Still on RC2 and happy. If it blows up, who cares, it's a beta.
I'm with Seldzar, lets all get along.
As far a i know.. im getting along pretty well. hehehe i love when theres a thread that lots of people are interested in.
As far of MS want in the OS industry ,thats still unknown. Are you guys pretty sure that Windows 2000 is what MS really wants?
Then you talk about Millennium like just a comercial product.. well i could be.. but.. "what if" Windows 2000 is built with the same idea? people are getting crazy about this whole Y2K stuff.. and everything that has the 2000 logo.. will sell.
If MS is pretty sure that Windows 2000 is the NEXT BIG STEP, why are we going to start (i dont know yet if this is sure) NEPTUNE on 2Q of 2000?
Remember.. MS is a very comercial well based product company. They know their stuff.
So i think that we never gonna get a final Windows in our lifes. Now Windows 2000 is a BIG THING.. lets see what happends in the next 2 years..some other MS OS will be out.. and all of you will focus on that.. and will forget about Windows 2000.
It has happend before.. it will happend again..
WAO MAN!! hehe i love this forum..
As far of MS want in the OS industry ,thats still unknown. Are you guys pretty sure that Windows 2000 is what MS really wants?
Then you talk about Millennium like just a comercial product.. well i could be.. but.. "what if" Windows 2000 is built with the same idea? people are getting crazy about this whole Y2K stuff.. and everything that has the 2000 logo.. will sell.
If MS is pretty sure that Windows 2000 is the NEXT BIG STEP, why are we going to start (i dont know yet if this is sure) NEPTUNE on 2Q of 2000?
Remember.. MS is a very comercial well based product company. They know their stuff.
So i think that we never gonna get a final Windows in our lifes. Now Windows 2000 is a BIG THING.. lets see what happends in the next 2 years..some other MS OS will be out.. and all of you will focus on that.. and will forget about Windows 2000.
It has happend before.. it will happend again..
WAO MAN!! hehe i love this forum..
it looks like everybody is getting along well to me...i think its good to have fun and stirring conversation in these forums. i may get a little carried away sometimes, but, really its all in fun. im sure if i met any of the guys in this forum id hit it off real quick with em. we all have our own views and thats what this is all about. i can tell by reading what peaje has written that he knows what he is talking about. if he had written something that didnt interest me i would have just browsed over and went on. and he is absolutely right, in a year or two we will move on to some other os, whether its ms or whatever.
OP
Well,
W2K has gone GOLD!!
I'll bet that there are no drivers included for us SB live owners or drivers (that work) for the TNT 2 or Geforce.
I'm going to be waiting with baited arms to see when all the vendors release drivers for W2K.
I know we won't see it untill Feb so this should give everyone plenty of time to build there drivers.
It's funny that it's not going to be released untill Feb, I wonder if that has anything to do with everyone getting driver issues taken care of. Because MS could care less about us gamers.
I hope it turns out to be a great OS because GOD knows we all hate 98.
...
W2K has gone GOLD!!
I'll bet that there are no drivers included for us SB live owners or drivers (that work) for the TNT 2 or Geforce.
I'm going to be waiting with baited arms to see when all the vendors release drivers for W2K.
I know we won't see it untill Feb so this should give everyone plenty of time to build there drivers.
It's funny that it's not going to be released untill Feb, I wonder if that has anything to do with everyone getting driver issues taken care of. Because MS could care less about us gamers.
I hope it turns out to be a great OS because GOD knows we all hate 98.
...
felt i should let you know a bit of info on Millenium. according to a magazine i was reading, millenium is basically what 98SE was to 98, can you say 98 TE. they pushed neptune up more, and considering not even giving out millenium just doing it like they did with 95 OSR2.1 Only availble with new computers. so go screw yourself off about millenium rules and 2000 sucks and wont be for gamers, with quake 3 in the arena and more smp enabled games on the way, SMP is going to be bigger, and Win2k pro is going to move much higher than NT4 and there is always the 98 was a Service pack to 95 as was SE, NT service packs free, Upgrade from nt4 -> 2000, not free, but a true upgrade. Plus there is stability, i push my system to limits with SMP and without it even in quake 3 i can max stuff out and keep playable framerates... so im all the way for 2k, just not for Creative's drivers, which hopefully will be available for at least beta soon, anyone think of writing them?
Win2k is an ok gaming platform but Millenium is still bettter and Millennium is WAY more of an upgrade to 98SE then SE was to 98. I have Mill installed and I get 20 more frames in Q3 with TNT card under it then under 98 or WIn2k. Also the disk performance in Millennium is about 30% faster then under WIn98/95. I know that Win2k is 300% faster with disk access then 98 but that is not the point. Win millennium would make for an awesome upgrade for the average Win98/95 user. Finaly the new system would actualy be FASTER the old one. Windows 2000 still has a few rough edges that need to be worked out before the average Jo can use with without bugging techical support with "stupid" questions.
